Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-26-2010, 06:02 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Alright all, in an attempt to turn this discussion a little away from griping about things over which we have no control. I attended the NYC base visit and basically will assume that most of the posters here keep their ears to the ground.
My ultimate takeaway was there was not a whole lot of NEW news. There was news that solidified some plans and nmbers. The base vist was by no means a waste of time.
Personally, I believe, and this is not investment advice, there is a rare opportunity to buy DAL stock for a reasonably large short term return. DYODD.
Has anyone heard whats going on at Delta....RE-FOCUS.
My ultimate takeaway was there was not a whole lot of NEW news. There was news that solidified some plans and nmbers. The base vist was by no means a waste of time.
Personally, I believe, and this is not investment advice, there is a rare opportunity to buy DAL stock for a reasonably large short term return. DYODD.
Has anyone heard whats going on at Delta....RE-FOCUS.
As for the base visits. Lots of good info. Refocusing on the product is good.
It is also interesting to notice what was NOT discussed.
06-26-2010, 06:07 AM
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Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: 764 FO
Posts: 228
OK, this is got to stop. It is not about Operation Visine, or that we are so pro DAL we cannot see the issues. It is simple. It is about seeing the big picture, understanding that there are certain decision that are not the absolute best decisions, but the best decision given a set of facts. It is about seeing the bigger picture and accepting the facts that we as pilots do not have all of the facts to understand the decisions made. It is about trusting those that are in those positions (both company and union) that were part of the process to have made the best possible decision.
No computer system that could have worked and was a better platform was trashed for an old and outdated system just because. There is a bigger reason that they are not shouting from the tops of the the a/c tails telling us line pilots. Trust the process.
As for operation Visine. With any merger they keep leaders and to see if they can adopt a philosophy and still be effective. If this does not happen they are let go and they replace said individual with someone that can. My personal opinion is that DAL has gone above and beyond with trying to split all positions 50-50. There comes a time when getting people that will agree with leadership and go from there trumps trying to look fair. Not saying it is right but that is corporate America and happens with every merger around the world.
DAL was the surviving carrier and their way of doing business (esp flt ops) survived. It is apparent that it is their philosophy that has survived. It also is apparent that they want people that are willing to get behind it and go from there. Right or wrong it is what it is, and when DAL is bought by someone their philosophy will be the surviving one not our. It is not personal. It is just the corporate world.
DO not take this as an attack on the NWA history or way of doing business. It is just how the world works.
No computer system that could have worked and was a better platform was trashed for an old and outdated system just because. There is a bigger reason that they are not shouting from the tops of the the a/c tails telling us line pilots. Trust the process.
As for operation Visine. With any merger they keep leaders and to see if they can adopt a philosophy and still be effective. If this does not happen they are let go and they replace said individual with someone that can. My personal opinion is that DAL has gone above and beyond with trying to split all positions 50-50. There comes a time when getting people that will agree with leadership and go from there trumps trying to look fair. Not saying it is right but that is corporate America and happens with every merger around the world.
DAL was the surviving carrier and their way of doing business (esp flt ops) survived. It is apparent that it is their philosophy that has survived. It also is apparent that they want people that are willing to get behind it and go from there. Right or wrong it is what it is, and when DAL is bought by someone their philosophy will be the surviving one not our. It is not personal. It is just the corporate world.
DO not take this as an attack on the NWA history or way of doing business. It is just how the world works.
Excellent Post! Give it up Carl, NWA is history now, I've let go, my paycheck says Delta on it!
06-26-2010, 06:17 AM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
DAL330, it is not meant as a slap in the face. It is just the truth. If you want to change it, get involved and work on slow change.
I see a change to AWABS coming, ship sets, checklists, et al. It is slow. A little patience is in order. NWA brought a ton of good things to this merger. Leadership has said that they will bring some of it forward. I believe the quote number is 350. Give em time. The process has brought both groups together under a same list and same procedures. As with all corporations the small and often unnoticeable change takes place over the next five years.
I cannot wait for a updated cornerstone system, updated crew software, updated flight planning etc. I know it takes time. I prefer them to get it right than to rush it and bring a program to market with a ton of bugs.
I see a change to AWABS coming, ship sets, checklists, et al. It is slow. A little patience is in order. NWA brought a ton of good things to this merger. Leadership has said that they will bring some of it forward. I believe the quote number is 350. Give em time. The process has brought both groups together under a same list and same procedures. As with all corporations the small and often unnoticeable change takes place over the next five years.
I cannot wait for a updated cornerstone system, updated crew software, updated flight planning etc. I know it takes time. I prefer them to get it right than to rush it and bring a program to market with a ton of bugs.
06-26-2010, 06:22 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
I'm glad there are some level heads within our group......
06-26-2010, 06:24 AM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Here is to us hiring a ton, and buying more jets! Growth makes all of these issues seem smaller.
Growth makes all of these issues seem smaller.
06-26-2010, 06:26 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Just as a reminder, just because you may run into a DALS pilot (outside this forum) that gives off a vibe of "this is the way Delta does it and therefore it's the only way it could ever be done" doesn't mean that's how management is doing it.
For some folks on both sides DAL and NWA were the only airlines they've ever known. Its kind of like those who want every airplane in the system flown like a 727. Change happens, some pilots fight it (including dals guys) but in corporate operations you fight change you can kiss your job goodbye.
If you talk to GO folks it's very interesting, this was a huge merger. There is so much going on that has nothing to do with us and everything about getting things done right.
For some folks on both sides DAL and NWA were the only airlines they've ever known. Its kind of like those who want every airplane in the system flown like a 727. Change happens, some pilots fight it (including dals guys) but in corporate operations you fight change you can kiss your job goodbye.
If you talk to GO folks it's very interesting, this was a huge merger. There is so much going on that has nothing to do with us and everything about getting things done right.
06-26-2010, 06:30 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
FtB; very true. Like when they closed DFW. Many did not think it was a good decision, but if you were not on board with it, you will replaced because you did not subscribe to the new philosophy.
Change is coming but it will probably be a lot slower than many expect or want.
I many not like all of the changes, but that does not mean that there is not a reason for them.
Change is coming but it will probably be a lot slower than many expect or want.
I many not like all of the changes, but that does not mean that there is not a reason for them.
06-26-2010, 07:39 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
When you write a corporate computer program, there are three elements, the back end database (DB1, SQL Server, Oracle, etc.) the front end user interface, and the middleware that connects the two. The back end is a given for each corporation and in this merger they had to choose one or the other, you can't really maintain two. The front end is relatively easy, there are many tools out there to put a pretty face on data and can be done with little time. The middleware is the hard part.
If you want to adapt NWA software to the DAL back end, you will have to rewrite the entire middleware package, which is the same as starting over in terms of manpower. That is why that even if NWA software front ends were better than DAL, it doesn't make much difference in terms of adapting the software. It is not like updating a Windows Vista application to run on Windows 7. It is not an upgrade, it is a complete rewrite.
In 2004-2007, Delta ran out of money and went bankrupt. Even coming out of bankruptcy, there were a lot of gaps to fill. They chose to invest more in customer centric issues like redoing the interiors and cleaning the planes. They also invested more in their people, on a relative basis. They did not invest as much in IT stuff for internal processes like scheduling, because it didn't affect the customer as much. So what if the schedulers uses pen and paper, as long as the trips get covered.
Everyone realizes there is more investment needed in IT here. I also have about 10 projects from my wife's to do list. When I get the time and money they will all eventually get done, just not tomorrow. Updates will come, just not tomorrow.
If you want to adapt NWA software to the DAL back end, you will have to rewrite the entire middleware package, which is the same as starting over in terms of manpower. That is why that even if NWA software front ends were better than DAL, it doesn't make much difference in terms of adapting the software. It is not like updating a Windows Vista application to run on Windows 7. It is not an upgrade, it is a complete rewrite.
In 2004-2007, Delta ran out of money and went bankrupt. Even coming out of bankruptcy, there were a lot of gaps to fill. They chose to invest more in customer centric issues like redoing the interiors and cleaning the planes. They also invested more in their people, on a relative basis. They did not invest as much in IT stuff for internal processes like scheduling, because it didn't affect the customer as much. So what if the schedulers uses pen and paper, as long as the trips get covered.
Everyone realizes there is more investment needed in IT here. I also have about 10 projects from my wife's to do list. When I get the time and money they will all eventually get done, just not tomorrow. Updates will come, just not tomorrow.
06-26-2010, 07:47 AM
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,236
No Problem....shoot the messenger--same strategy as the White House. Concerns from those with a "fresh look" are being brushed aside. Mid level managers who also have these concerns are being replaced. It has nothing to do with avoiding change, it's about changing things for the better for the company and the pilots! If you prefer to needlessly **** away fuel and revenue because you are the survivor, have at it. I'd rather see additional profit margins and better compensation!
06-26-2010, 07:48 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 841
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