Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Silly little thing about this merger. All the hype etc about it allowed the financial community to have faith in the new airline and as a result allowed it to restructure its debt in the worst credit crunch in the history of the modern world.
So I ask, where do you think either company would be without that credit we got at 8 to 9 percent and change?
I can list what we refinanced, but the simple fact is that this along with the integration saved many jobs, and not just pilot jobs. Growth will heal many of the wounds, and lets pray to God that we see the growth that the are talking about in the investor calls. (Just a little over a year ago they were cutting by the same percentages)
So I ask, where do you think either company would be without that credit we got at 8 to 9 percent and change?
I can list what we refinanced, but the simple fact is that this along with the integration saved many jobs, and not just pilot jobs. Growth will heal many of the wounds, and lets pray to God that we see the growth that the are talking about in the investor calls. (Just a little over a year ago they were cutting by the same percentages)
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Sink,
Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of what we do now. Pushing with the numbers is the top of my list. Makes everyone from the ramp to the gate agents do their best for on time vs just "they'll get it on the way to the runway, we've got an out time"
We changed a lot of things over the past 10 years or so from checklists to ACARS stuff and I can't recall it all and to list here. All I'll say is you don't know what you haven't seen. All I know is there are lots of exNWA pilot management types who have given up beating their heads against the wall and are either going back to the line or retiring. It's sad.
But, bottom line is your right. We lost the branding thing and I'll do it what ever way they want as long as they send me the paycheck.
Best to ya,
Ferd
Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of what we do now. Pushing with the numbers is the top of my list. Makes everyone from the ramp to the gate agents do their best for on time vs just "they'll get it on the way to the runway, we've got an out time"
We changed a lot of things over the past 10 years or so from checklists to ACARS stuff and I can't recall it all and to list here. All I'll say is you don't know what you haven't seen. All I know is there are lots of exNWA pilot management types who have given up beating their heads against the wall and are either going back to the line or retiring. It's sad.
But, bottom line is your right. We lost the branding thing and I'll do it what ever way they want as long as they send me the paycheck.
Best to ya,
Ferd
Regards,
Sink r8
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Two observations and then buzz can try and blame me for starting the current food fight.
Survey Comments.
Keenster is not seniority 45xx, it was not his response on the ALPA survey, he said it was emailed to him, presumably by the pilot that did the survey. Sailing is responding as though it was keensters complaint, it's not. For buzz's benefit, it's not mine either, I don't fly the 747.
Procedures.
I'm sure someone will correct this, but I believe Delta used to use procedures and manuals a lot more similar to fNW until the lawyers did their bullshi* thing and recommended the move to Boeing standard. I seem to recall DAL either buying or at least thinking of buying SOPA, SMAC and other stuff from fNW after the Dallas 727 accident? Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.
I have been hearing RUMORS that split checklists will be going away soon. After the 87 DTW accident fNW spent megabucks and hired a firm to analyze what changes would make things safer and possibly prevent a repeat incident.
Top two recommendations out of that study?
No split checklists.
Each pilot should do the exact same thing procedurally on every flight. As few variations as possible. (SOPA/SMAC)
My $.02
Crystal ball prediction. In 2 or 3 years we will be MUCH closer to fNW procedures than we are now.
Survey Comments.
Keenster is not seniority 45xx, it was not his response on the ALPA survey, he said it was emailed to him, presumably by the pilot that did the survey. Sailing is responding as though it was keensters complaint, it's not. For buzz's benefit, it's not mine either, I don't fly the 747.
Procedures.
I'm sure someone will correct this, but I believe Delta used to use procedures and manuals a lot more similar to fNW until the lawyers did their bullshi* thing and recommended the move to Boeing standard. I seem to recall DAL either buying or at least thinking of buying SOPA, SMAC and other stuff from fNW after the Dallas 727 accident? Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.
I have been hearing RUMORS that split checklists will be going away soon. After the 87 DTW accident fNW spent megabucks and hired a firm to analyze what changes would make things safer and possibly prevent a repeat incident.
Top two recommendations out of that study?
No split checklists.
Each pilot should do the exact same thing procedurally on every flight. As few variations as possible. (SOPA/SMAC)
My $.02
Crystal ball prediction. In 2 or 3 years we will be MUCH closer to fNW procedures than we are now.
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
OK. The most junior "4,5xx" is 135/200 on the DTW744B list for June.
The PBS actual line count for DTW744B in June is 147.
135 is Guaranteed a line......FAIL.
BTW....The next number below him that is holding an ATL position is ATLM88A.....202/473.....LINEHOLDER!!
(actually better percentage wise than his commute seat, not to mention $12/hr. more including intl. ovrd.)
The PBS actual line count for DTW744B in June is 147.
135 is Guaranteed a line......FAIL.
BTW....The next number below him that is holding an ATL position is ATLM88A.....202/473.....LINEHOLDER!!
(actually better percentage wise than his commute seat, not to mention $12/hr. more including intl. ovrd.)
Look at the 744 rotations for June. Only 21% of the rotations are shorter than 10 days in length. 135 is a guaranteed line IF he had no other credit on his line that would allow him to bid one of the 79% of rotations of 10 days or longer. If he had even a moderate amount of credit on his schedule for June, and all the short trips were gone before PBS got to his bid, he would end up with no rotations that would get him within the "ALV window" which means --- Reserve.
Nosmo and shiz: This 747 reserve thing looks like a pure case of PBS-itis. One of the biggest quality of life and pay cuts we ever got rammed down our throats was PBS. They didn’t put the BS on the acronym for nothing. Two important issues we desperately need to address in 2012 are PBS and the vacation bank. The vacation bank is a huge win for the company and a huge loss for us. PBS is also a major hit to us financially. Secondly, it allows the company no accountability as to how trips are awarded. The FA’s system is even worse. When the FA’s schedules come out, if there isn’t enough time on their lines, they just tack a little two day trip in there after the fact. I wouldn’t be surprised if they started doing that to us as well. PBS sucks!
I've also never been called smug nor cute. I guess I could be called worse. The way I read your post it comes across that you're saying I should be happy to be at Delta. I was happy at Northwest. I will be happier with Delta when we are treated equally.
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Johnso, What I think does not matter. What mattes is what the NWA negotiating team thought was fair. If I had a beef it would be with them for selling you short. This is their part of the deal, or at least how it has been framed on here and other places.
My suggestion is that it be one of the items we get in the next LOA. I know it does not help "all" pilots but it helps with unity and that is key.
My suggestion is that it be one of the items we get in the next LOA. I know it does not help "all" pilots but it helps with unity and that is key.
If we are to move forward, to be one the this needs to be fixed before the next contract. This is not about DAL vs. NWA, this about a small group of DAL pilots being paid a B scale compared to all other DAL pilots. We don't get a penny of a pension, we had no input or ability to vote on it, and it needs to be fixed if we are to move forward as one.
I just want people who AREN'T effected by it to be aware of it, and think about what it would be like if they were in our shoes.
We all agree that this isn't fair, but it is a short-lived problem. What isn't a short-lived problem is the seniority divide that could potentially resurface on this point. There are plenty of guys that can make very, very coherent arguments that they got screwed in terms of retirement. And each one of those is a little blow to the precious unity that might yield results when we negotiate. Each argument like this gets us one step closer to some sort of "matrix", or other mechanism to "rectify" everyone's retirement picture. And there isn't one such outcome out there that you or I, as fairly junior pilots, would like.
I suggest you quit complaining about what you get relative to a newhire, and focus on the difference between where you've been, and where you are. And please do that quickly, so we can focus on where we're going instead.
I suggest you quit complaining about what you get relative to a newhire, and focus on the difference between where you've been, and where you are. And please do that quickly, so we can focus on where we're going instead.
How is it a short lived problem? It lasts for all of my longevity raises, as well as for my DC contributions. This is NOT a DAL vs. NWA issue, this is about getting us all on a level playing field so we can move forward as one. I'm not trying to divide anyone, but rather bring it to other people's attention so that we can ensure it's corrected NLT then the next contract. Did you even know that I only get 6% vs 10%? Did you even read that part of the TA before you voted for it? I'd venture to say no, since it was a NWA issue and not a DAL issue.
If it effected you, how would you feel about it? Are you willing to help get it changed, or will you continue to tell me to get over it since it doesn't effect you? Are you willing to help us move forward together as one, where we are all on a level field?
What's really funny is that Keenster posts an email, probably from a buddy, and then sits back and watches the fur fly. Probably cracking a beer or two. Nice Keenster!
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Nosmo and shiz: This 747 reserve thing looks like a pure case of PBS-itis. One of the biggest quality of life and pay cuts we ever got rammed down our throats was PBS. They didn’t put the BS on the acronym for nothing. Two important issues we desperately need to address in 2012 are PBS and the vacation bank. The vacation bank is a huge win for the company and a huge loss for us. PBS is also a major hit to us financially. Secondly, it allows the company no accountability as to how trips are awarded. The FA’s system is even worse. When the FA’s schedules come out, if there isn’t enough time on their lines, they just tack a little two day trip in there after the fact. I wouldn’t be surprised if they started doing that to us as well. PBS sucks!
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Silly little thing about this merger. All the hype etc about it allowed the financial community to have faith in the new airline and as a result allowed it to restructure its debt in the worst credit crunch in the history of the modern world.
So I ask, where do you think either company would be without that credit we got at 8 to 9 percent and change?
I can list what we refinanced, but the simple fact is that this along with the integration saved many jobs, and not just pilot jobs. Growth will heal many of the wounds, and lets pray to God that we see the growth that the are talking about in the investor calls. (Just a little over a year ago they were cutting by the same percentages)
So I ask, where do you think either company would be without that credit we got at 8 to 9 percent and change?
I can list what we refinanced, but the simple fact is that this along with the integration saved many jobs, and not just pilot jobs. Growth will heal many of the wounds, and lets pray to God that we see the growth that the are talking about in the investor calls. (Just a little over a year ago they were cutting by the same percentages)
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