jabwmu

I see what you're saying. You're more concerned about yourself and the whole group in the future than a small percentage being treated equally now. Roger. I think the next LOA could fix this as well.

acl65pilot

Ferd;

Trust me I get that the brunt of the changes have been on you, but I get the distinct impression that there will be changes ahead that will be new for me and you, and some that will be old to you and new to me. I beleive that it has been stated that there are 350 items they want to revisit now that SOC is complete. I also understand that the checklist philosophy is the first to get the rework. One thing that is changing is the number of times we check altimeters. Not so sure about flaps!

When it comes to IT, DAL has admitted that NWA had the superior product and is working on new software that will be able to talk to programs like SAP, Cornerstone, and a bunch of other pilots know nothing about. Point is that it was a sprint to the start line of this merger. Now that SOC is done we get to take our time fixing what the knew was fixable but did not have the time.

As for the comments about all of the other QOL and bennies. Yep, we have a long list of needs not just wants going in to 2012, and we need to get some true gains in these LOA's. No one discredits that. What guys like me hate seeing is rehashing items that cannot be changed, and the net result is division.
Write your reps, talk to your CP, heck e-mail the bosses of both ALPA and the company. Do what you think needs to be done. In the end if you cannot stand it, volunteer for a position in ALPA. Get involved, understand the issues that strap each issue. If you want change the best way is to engage and be part of it.

sailingfun

Ferd, Adopt and go was done by a committees composed of both NWA and Delta pilots generally in equal numbers. I know several people who were directily involved. They said that almost without exception the best path to take was very obvious and there was little or no divergence of opinions between the NWA and Delta pilots. These guys however were working with all the facts. They had all the data on how the different computer systems integrated and talked to each other. They had the data on the cost of various options to bring the two groups under one set of procedures. They had guidance from the FAA. Line pilots may think we know it all but thats generally not reality. Talk to some of the NWA pilots who were working the problem. I think you might get a different perspective on the solutions arrived at.

Ferd149

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sailingfun

I can't even begin to respond to all you said but I will point out a couple of things. All pilots at Delta made a lot less money last year then the year before. In my case 30,000 dollars less last year. In case you missed it there was a huge collapse in the airline industry and flying decreased dramatically. As one NW pilot who was being honest admitted had their not been a merger NWA would more then likely have a lot of pilots on the street with the collapse in the far east yields being far greater then other markets. You also know that as a 747 FO you were impacted more in quality of life and LOT selection because 747FO jobs were converted to 747CA jobs under the Delta contract. Would you have kept those jobs as FO jobs and do you feel that would have been best for the pilot group as a whole? Living in ATL you will have many options and not have to commute. You can hold 73N Captain right now. Pay on that is currently 168 an hour. What were you making as a NWA 747 FO. I think it was around 120 an hour. In two years that 737 CA's job will pay 181 dollars an hour or more then a 747 CA at NWA would have been getting under the old NWA contract since it was a long duration contract and had no pay raises!!!
In addition you got at least a 45,000 dollar bump in your retirement plan from the stock and will in two years jump to a 14 percent DC plan. Add it all up and its a lot more money in two years than you could ever have hoped for under the NWA contract.

P.S. You can check any pilots currency and don't have to be a CA. Just go to the currency page. The prompt for Captains was actually added post merger. Prior to the prompt CA had to go to the currency menu also.

jiminmem

I think we need to use this survey and our energies in preparing for 2012. This contract was passed with a divided pilot group, I like to think as whole we can do better. I have more then a few issues with the way things were merged, but that has been done. At this point we need to move forward and work together. I really want to have a premeir contract for the premeir airline.

Off topic a bit, I definitely agree with the complaints on the 401k. As a 2007 FNWA, this topic definitely ticks me off.

jiminmem

Perfectly stated.

Sink r8

Hey Ferd,

Sure, it's crap. It's crap because it has zero power to accomplish anything positive. It can't change the outcome of what has happened.

Keep in mind you're bringing up two separate discussions here. The first is the SLI, and the e-mail Keenster elected to post. If people like to e-mail each other and vent about how "we" got screwed by "them", more power to them. Let them relive the past in whatever way they see fit. Just don't expect a receptive audience on forums that include both groups, because the line for people that got screwed is 12,000 names long.

The second discussion involves the "adopt-and-go". I will be the first to agree that many of the changes must feel very frustrating. I think it's also frustrating because it kind of pokes a big fat finger at the notion that this was a "merger of equals", or a "blend" of the best of both worlds. I think Flight Ops is getting a little confused in some of the "touchy-feely" approach, and expectations have been set that cannot truly be met.

If you view this purely pragmatically, from a corporate transaction, or from the standpoint of the brand, Delta bought Northwest. The problem is, we employees don't view things that way: we are people, and we have our pride. I suspect that it's not possible for a Northwest pilot to view things in that pragmatic a way. You are intelligent, capable people, and you have been doing things very well, for a very long time, in your own way. You don't want to lose your identity, and you resent being told what to do, and how to do it differently (as does any normal pilot). So there is a conflict between the stark reality that Delta bought Northwest, and the obvious reality that employees have pride and must be treated equally, and with respect, in order for this merger to work.

Flight Ops is dancing around this, and has chosen the "Adopt-and-Go" model, with the promise that the end-result will be "a blend". In a way, this is a cheap way out. I don't think the end result will be the kind of 50-50 thing they advertise. But for now they get to avoid explicitly saying that the resulting airline is Delta. The problem is, they're intorducing a new avenue for fighting: procedures. I heard of a former Western pilot that they were given the Delta manuals Thursday, and told to use the new procedures Monday. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but they knew where to go, and noone dangled any carrots in front of them that, not to worry, we would "blend" the procedures later.

So now, you have a situation where pilots are (naturally) disappointed in the SLI, AND you get to re-live the merger every day by having long-winded discussions about what the procedures should be. Maybe this will be the avenue that allow some people to try to get even for their frustrations in the SLI... I can hardly wait.

Personally, I think there are a lot of Delta procedures that could use a thorough review, and I'm ready to discuss them with you one-on-one as we fly together. For now, I think maybe Flight Ops miscalculated by promising future "blending", to try to gloss over the current 80% change. That 80% sucks, no doubt about it, but it's not helped any by vague pretenses that you're not really having to change everything. You just think you're scrapping your identity, and 80% of your procedures, but you're actually "adopting-and-going". See how much easier that is?

Maybe a little more intellectual honesty would have helped. Had they been more direct, and more explicit about the fact that we're, really, Delta, they could have put more energy in showing to all fNWA pilots that we are now all valued Delta employees.

I say "energy", but money will do the trick too.

Sink r8

Nice jab, jab. Smug and cute. Completely misstates my motives, but who needs to be accurate when you can be smug and cute?

Ferd149

Sink,

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of what we do now. Pushing with the numbers is the top of my list. Makes everyone from the ramp to the gate agents do their best for on time vs just "they'll get it on the way to the runway, we've got an out time"

We changed a lot of things over the past 10 years or so from checklists to ACARS stuff and I can't recall it all and to list here. All I'll say is you don't know what you haven't seen, I have and the old ways really were better IMO. All I know is there are lots of exNWA pilot management types who have given up beating their heads against the wall and are either going back to the line or retiring. It's sad.

But, bottom line is your right. We lost the branding thing and I'll do it what ever way they want as long as they send me the paycheck.

Best to ya,
Ferd