Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-16-2010, 12:06 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
You have some really bad facts in your statement.
First the check airman had become sick and was not at the controls. He was in the back of the aircraft. The flight arrived at about 5:30AM trying to expedite the arrival because his condition was getting worse. They were given multiple runway changes in the last 15 minutes including a switch from 27L to 27R at 1500 feet. The taxiway in question had been written up multiple times as appearing to be a runway from the air because of the new LED lighting which appeared white not blue. The reports were spread out over a year. Tower failed to turn on the approach lights or ILS for 27R. There were several violations of procedures on the ATC side.
The final savings grace for the pilots was when the FAA duplicated the approach in the air and also lined up on the taxiway. The incident while serious without question had so many mitigating circumstances the FAA took no certificate action against either pilot. There was also minimal press coverage. The MSP overflight had extreme political and press issues and the FAA took very strong certificate action against both crew members. The issue by the way is still not over and I believe the FO will be back to work. The Captain made a choice to retire so in his case the issue may be over.
First the check airman had become sick and was not at the controls. He was in the back of the aircraft. The flight arrived at about 5:30AM trying to expedite the arrival because his condition was getting worse. They were given multiple runway changes in the last 15 minutes including a switch from 27L to 27R at 1500 feet. The taxiway in question had been written up multiple times as appearing to be a runway from the air because of the new LED lighting which appeared white not blue. The reports were spread out over a year. Tower failed to turn on the approach lights or ILS for 27R. There were several violations of procedures on the ATC side.
The final savings grace for the pilots was when the FAA duplicated the approach in the air and also lined up on the taxiway. The incident while serious without question had so many mitigating circumstances the FAA took no certificate action against either pilot. There was also minimal press coverage. The MSP overflight had extreme political and press issues and the FAA took very strong certificate action against both crew members. The issue by the way is still not over and I believe the FO will be back to work. The Captain made a choice to retire so in his case the issue may be over.
I also, btw, see how being "distracted" in a similiar fashion to 188 can happen. It pays not to be distracted and that comes from me, a joker. Not a joke, just a joker.
But I also fly the 88 and you don't leave that airplane alone, especially with that engine a-ice open MEL. But no VNAV and no autothrottles is actually, kind of pleasant sometimes. Also, how many go-arounds do we do a day?!? Sitting for over an hour between 28 and 27L I got to see 3, 1 757, 2 88s.
06-16-2010, 12:10 PM
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Posts: 23,286
Hockey- This is what I was referencing, the name was originally different, and did not match up with a retired DL pilot.
Now that the spelling has been corrected, I most sincerely apologize for calling you out on this. I was wrong, and I am sorry for what I said.
That being said, that scum sucking scab needs his kneecaps taken out Teamster-style.
Now that the spelling has been corrected, I most sincerely apologize for calling you out on this. I was wrong, and I am sorry for what I said.
That being said, that scum sucking scab needs his kneecaps taken out Teamster-style.
I agree with you Satch, but, how about keeping the posts as a reminder. And then adding an apology post?
---
Or how about for the sake of the Falcon Air pilots calling in sick and refusing to fly struck work for Spirit, how about we move them up the respect totem poll and then figure out why, as slow put it, "a keyboard warrior" from within the DAL pilot group (mvndc10) wants to label all Falcon Air pilots scabs...
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Or how about for the sake of the Falcon Air pilots calling in sick and refusing to fly struck work for Spirit, how about we move them up the respect totem poll and then figure out why, as slow put it, "a keyboard warrior" from within the DAL pilot group (mvndc10) wants to label all Falcon Air pilots scabs...
06-16-2010, 12:10 PM
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06-16-2010, 12:11 PM
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Posts: 6,070
Your facts are wrong on what you think occurred. I will not correct them, but some of what you just stated is incorrect. Also, who says the company and alpa did not back the 188 crew? There is little leverage with emergency revocation (of any kind), and then the inability to perform said job.
Remember that the 188 crew agreed to the revocation so that they could re-certify in 12 months. Look at what has been published and then look at how carefully worded the responses are. I am not going to state which I would have chosen, that is just ignorant.
Remember that the 188 crew agreed to the revocation so that they could re-certify in 12 months. Look at what has been published and then look at how carefully worded the responses are. I am not going to state which I would have chosen, that is just ignorant.
06-16-2010, 12:13 PM
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Posts: 3,716
FTB, on those go-arounds can you speculate why? Thx
06-16-2010, 12:15 PM
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You mean as far as landing on taxiway M?
I can't find an airport diagram that shows the location of the taxiway signs at ATL, I'll keep looking, someone had this picture outlined and what you see when landing on the 27s at ATL is that the bright yellow lighted taxiway signs and all of those bright yellow ramp entry signs dot every corner of a taxiway intersection at the airport. They're all perfectly aligned together and thus it could in a hurry look like a runway starting from where J and M come together.
I just remember coming into land one night on 27L and I was thinking "why in the world did they land on M?!?" and then I look over there and it was like "oooh, I see."
I can't find an airport diagram that shows the location of the taxiway signs at ATL, I'll keep looking, someone had this picture outlined and what you see when landing on the 27s at ATL is that the bright yellow lighted taxiway signs and all of those bright yellow ramp entry signs dot every corner of a taxiway intersection at the airport. They're all perfectly aligned together and thus it could in a hurry look like a runway starting from where J and M come together.
I just remember coming into land one night on 27L and I was thinking "why in the world did they land on M?!?" and then I look over there and it was like "oooh, I see."
06-16-2010, 12:16 PM
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Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
The media was able to get their info from the police report that the MSP airport cops and the FBI did when the guys landed, from what I understand. This is why your ALPA safety card says dummy up and go hide till you get expert advice.
06-16-2010, 12:16 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
The company and the FAA divided your group when they opted to back the check airman of DAL that landed on the wrong runway in ATL in the same time frame that the NWA pilots overflew MSP.
Landing on the wrong runway is a (remote) possibility for any pilot, but so is the overfly.
Any pilot or knowledgeable aviation professional, would have gladly picked the MSP EAU tour, if they were sitting in back any day, vs the DAL check airman in control landing on the wrong runway. This is why it does not pass the smell test. (IMHO)
Landing on the wrong runway is a (remote) possibility for any pilot, but so is the overfly.
Any pilot or knowledgeable aviation professional, would have gladly picked the MSP EAU tour, if they were sitting in back any day, vs the DAL check airman in control landing on the wrong runway. This is why it does not pass the smell test. (IMHO)
06-16-2010, 12:18 PM
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all4114all,
The difference between the ATL crew and the MSP crew is that the ATL made an honest-to-God mistake. They did not intentionally line up to land on the taxiway. That's why ASAP accepted them.
The MSP willfully broke the rules by busting out their laptops and as a result overflew their destination. ASAP doesn't cover for intentionally breaking regs.
Big difference.
BTW, my odds are on the FO winning his grievance and getting his job back. I've seen guys get reinstated for much worse stuff than this.
The difference between the ATL crew and the MSP crew is that the ATL made an honest-to-God mistake. They did not intentionally line up to land on the taxiway. That's why ASAP accepted them.
The MSP willfully broke the rules by busting out their laptops and as a result overflew their destination. ASAP doesn't cover for intentionally breaking regs.
Big difference.
BTW, my odds are on the FO winning his grievance and getting his job back. I've seen guys get reinstated for much worse stuff than this.
06-16-2010, 12:22 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
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Posts: 18,563
Those go arounds in ATL yesterday were for a 55 kt microburst over the field. It was quite impressive to see jet after jet get to about 800 agl and then go around. Lasted about two hrs.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 06-16-2010 at 12:47 PM.
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