Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-11-2010, 07:28 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
So there is a new close-out procedure, but can I make a request. I don't really care about seeing 14/128, 1 JS, 3 FA, 12 KIDS.
You can take all of that and throw it out the window as far as I care because really how many people is that? A large person who occupies 2 seats shows up as 2 people, lap kids are missing. I just want to know how many living human beings are in the back of my plane so that when things go bad I can tell the right person exactly how many people need to be found standing outside of this airplane.
Am I missing it somewhere, is it on the paperwork somewhere? Is it on the preface, if it is, I've missed it for 2.5 years. I know I can ask for the count, but why not have it on the paperwork?
You can take all of that and throw it out the window as far as I care because really how many people is that? A large person who occupies 2 seats shows up as 2 people, lap kids are missing. I just want to know how many living human beings are in the back of my plane so that when things go bad I can tell the right person exactly how many people need to be found standing outside of this airplane.
Am I missing it somewhere, is it on the paperwork somewhere? Is it on the preface, if it is, I've missed it for 2.5 years. I know I can ask for the count, but why not have it on the paperwork?
My understanding is.. it's not.
We should do the simple format similar the NWAto MGL used where it's 12/138 or whatever, then a separate lines for 3 BIAs (infant in arms).
Put that with our JS and FA format and you've got a quick skull count.
Our current format completely ignores infant in arms.
06-11-2010, 08:28 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
My understanding is.. it's not.
We should do the simple format similar the NWAto MGL used where it's 12/138 or whatever, then a separate lines for 3 BIAs (infant in arms).
Put that with our JS and FA format and you've got a quick skull count.
Our current format completely ignores infant in arms.
We should do the simple format similar the NWAto MGL used where it's 12/138 or whatever, then a separate lines for 3 BIAs (infant in arms).
Put that with our JS and FA format and you've got a quick skull count.
Our current format completely ignores infant in arms.
06-11-2010, 08:44 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
06-11-2010, 09:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
I'm not bothered by the fact that they expect to get the per diem, pay rate, vacation, and scheduling rules listed in their contract, I'm not bothered about them expecting to flow at the appropriate time.
It is the attitude that slightly bothers, not the exercise of the terms of theie CBA.
06-11-2010, 09:42 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Random tidbits I learned today, some of which I should have known.
If your PBS calendar does not agree with your VTS calendar, call scheduling (if it bugs you).
Vacation and training are pay, no credit for negative bank payback. What does this mean? You can be paid well over 80 hours but have well under 80 hours credit and thus...no payoff of negative bank.
Vacation and training are pay and credit for PBS bidding and white slips.
Vacation and training don't matter for green slip.
If there is a rotation that starts, lets say on July 23rd and ends with a flight that pushes on 31 July but terminates early on 01 August, there is no carryout and its listed as a 10 day trip.
Add a deadhead to above trip on 01 Aug and its now an 10 day trip with carryout even though the above trip arrives in base the same day.
Move above trip (without deadhead) entirely into one month and it can confuse the crap out of you when you are attempting to bid back to back trips.
Delta retirees (including fNW retirees) can now get a photo ID identifying them as such. If you retired fNW prior to 2008(?), you have to have your picture taken in either MSP or ATL because you don't have one on file with Delta.
Supposedly a postcard was mailed this month to all retirees. Nice to have that ID card for your FDX discount.
Why didn't I know these things before? I didn't see them on APC
If your PBS calendar does not agree with your VTS calendar, call scheduling (if it bugs you).
Vacation and training are pay, no credit for negative bank payback. What does this mean? You can be paid well over 80 hours but have well under 80 hours credit and thus...no payoff of negative bank.
Vacation and training are pay and credit for PBS bidding and white slips.
Vacation and training don't matter for green slip.
If there is a rotation that starts, lets say on July 23rd and ends with a flight that pushes on 31 July but terminates early on 01 August, there is no carryout and its listed as a 10 day trip.
Add a deadhead to above trip on 01 Aug and its now an 10 day trip with carryout even though the above trip arrives in base the same day.
Move above trip (without deadhead) entirely into one month and it can confuse the crap out of you when you are attempting to bid back to back trips.
Delta retirees (including fNW retirees) can now get a photo ID identifying them as such. If you retired fNW prior to 2008(?), you have to have your picture taken in either MSP or ATL because you don't have one on file with Delta.
Supposedly a postcard was mailed this month to all retirees. Nice to have that ID card for your FDX discount.Why didn't I know these things before? I didn't see them on APC
Last edited by Nosmo King; 06-12-2010 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Correcting Error
06-11-2010, 11:33 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
I agree, humility goes a long way. OTOH, they are just exercising an aspect of their otherwise completely crappy CBA....and I mean REALLY crappy.
I'm not bothered by the fact that they expect to get the per diem, pay rate, vacation, and scheduling rules listed in their contract, I'm not bothered about them expecting to flow at the appropriate time.
It is the attitude that slightly bothers, not the exercise of the terms of theie CBA.
I'm not bothered by the fact that they expect to get the per diem, pay rate, vacation, and scheduling rules listed in their contract, I'm not bothered about them expecting to flow at the appropriate time.
It is the attitude that slightly bothers, not the exercise of the terms of theie CBA.
I try not to get too excited about things until I know their definitive, and I was pretty sure this is not the case. I was arguing the point that the flowthrough guys aren't recalls, and that only recalls retained current seniority numbers, while the flowthrough guys start at the bottom of the list.
Does that sound right to you guys?
06-12-2010, 03:21 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Contract Section 20.B.2 controls new hire seniority.
06-12-2010, 03:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,574
Random tidbits I learned today, some of which I should have known.
If your PBS calendar does not agree with your VTS calendar, call scheduling (if it bugs you).
Always call in this situation. It can have a serious impact on your bid award.
Vacation and training are pay, no credit for negative bank payback. What does this mean? You can be paid well over 80 hours but have well under 80 hours credit and thus...no payoff of negative bank.
Most pilots would consider this a good thing. You can put in a manual request for bank payback.
Vacation and training are pay and credit for PBS bidding and white slips.
THIS IS INCORRECT. Vacation and training are pay and no credit for white slips. If you have a month with a 81 hour line including a week of vacation at 21 hours your credit for the month is 60 hours. If the ALV that month was 80 hours your max pickup is 95 hours. Since you have 60 hours you can whiteslip an additional 35 hours for a total months pay of 116 hours.
Vacation and training don't matter for green slip.
They count toward the GS trigger so they do matter.
If there is a rotation that starts, lets say on July 23rd and ends with a flight that pushes on 31 July but terminates early on 01 August, there is no carryout and its listed as a 10 day trip.
Correct, All legs at Delta are paid based on the Calender day they orginate.
Add a deadhead to above trip on 01 Aug and its now an 10 day trip with carryout even though the above trip arrives in base the same day.
Move above trip (without deadhead) entirely into one month and it can confuse the crap out of you when you are attempting to bid back to back trips.
Not sure why it would be confusing. You arrive home when you arrive home! It would increase your pay in the month you moved the entire trip into and eliminate any carry out pay.
Delta retirees (including fNW retirees) can now get a photo ID identifying them as such. If you retired fNW prior to 2008(?), you have to have your picture taken in either MSP or ATL because you don't have one on file with Delta. Supposedly a postcard was mailed this month to all retirees. Nice to have that ID card for your FDX discount.
Why didn't I know these things before? I didn't see them on APC
If your PBS calendar does not agree with your VTS calendar, call scheduling (if it bugs you).
Always call in this situation. It can have a serious impact on your bid award.
Vacation and training are pay, no credit for negative bank payback. What does this mean? You can be paid well over 80 hours but have well under 80 hours credit and thus...no payoff of negative bank.
Most pilots would consider this a good thing. You can put in a manual request for bank payback.
Vacation and training are pay and credit for PBS bidding and white slips.
THIS IS INCORRECT. Vacation and training are pay and no credit for white slips. If you have a month with a 81 hour line including a week of vacation at 21 hours your credit for the month is 60 hours. If the ALV that month was 80 hours your max pickup is 95 hours. Since you have 60 hours you can whiteslip an additional 35 hours for a total months pay of 116 hours.
Vacation and training don't matter for green slip.
They count toward the GS trigger so they do matter.
If there is a rotation that starts, lets say on July 23rd and ends with a flight that pushes on 31 July but terminates early on 01 August, there is no carryout and its listed as a 10 day trip.
Correct, All legs at Delta are paid based on the Calender day they orginate.
Add a deadhead to above trip on 01 Aug and its now an 10 day trip with carryout even though the above trip arrives in base the same day.
Move above trip (without deadhead) entirely into one month and it can confuse the crap out of you when you are attempting to bid back to back trips.
Not sure why it would be confusing. You arrive home when you arrive home! It would increase your pay in the month you moved the entire trip into and eliminate any carry out pay.
Delta retirees (including fNW retirees) can now get a photo ID identifying them as such. If you retired fNW prior to 2008(?), you have to have your picture taken in either MSP or ATL because you don't have one on file with Delta.
Supposedly a postcard was mailed this month to all retirees. Nice to have that ID card for your FDX discount.Why didn't I know these things before? I didn't see them on APC
06-12-2010, 04:08 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Had a discussion with a friend of mine and he said that maybe the flow-through newhires from Mesaba and Compass might already have tentative seniority numbers at DAL thereby starting on senior to current DAL pilots.
I try not to get too excited about things until I know their definitive, and I was pretty sure this is not the case. I was arguing the point that the flowthrough guys aren't recalls, and that only recalls retained current seniority numbers, while the flowthrough guys start at the bottom of the list.
Does that sound right to you guys?
I try not to get too excited about things until I know their definitive, and I was pretty sure this is not the case. I was arguing the point that the flowthrough guys aren't recalls, and that only recalls retained current seniority numbers, while the flowthrough guys start at the bottom of the list.
Does that sound right to you guys?
Maybe they will flow or recall at the same time.
06-12-2010, 04:38 AM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
I better call the ATL Field Office again, they gave me the info on training and vacation counting as credit for WS and not for GS. Not sure if he mentioned the GS trigger.
The trip is confusing (to me) because the printed roatation showed A thru I for departure day and I didn't check the arrival time to see if it actually arrives on Day I or Day J. Just wasn't what I'm used to seeing. I was trying to back to back some short trips by just looking at the bid packages vs. the PBS Desktop which has a Trip Length column.
UGH can't get the patterns to format correctly in here for posting.
After browsing some patterns too quickly I thought it was a 3 day trip (it had A B C in the Day column). Yes, I knew it landed on day 4 and I've flown Asia for so long I should have known better, but I didn't catch it until later in my bid process. For some reason I was expecting a D in the DAY column. It's just something I have to get used to seeing. The patts with end of rotation deadheads had a D in the DAY column (because the DH flight left on that calendar day).
I usually bid one long trip and don't look at that stuff, but was helping another pilot bid for July because he has not flown in 8 months. Glad I didn't do this in December around xmas.
The trip is confusing (to me) because the printed roatation showed A thru I for departure day and I didn't check the arrival time to see if it actually arrives on Day I or Day J. Just wasn't what I'm used to seeing. I was trying to back to back some short trips by just looking at the bid packages vs. the PBS Desktop which has a Trip Length column.
UGH can't get the patterns to format correctly in here for posting.
After browsing some patterns too quickly I thought it was a 3 day trip (it had A B C in the Day column). Yes, I knew it landed on day 4 and I've flown Asia for so long I should have known better, but I didn't catch it until later in my bid process. For some reason I was expecting a D in the DAY column. It's just something I have to get used to seeing. The patts with end of rotation deadheads had a D in the DAY column (because the DH flight left on that calendar day).
I usually bid one long trip and don't look at that stuff, but was helping another pilot bid for July because he has not flown in 8 months. Glad I didn't do this in December around xmas.
Last edited by Nosmo King; 06-12-2010 at 05:05 AM.
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