It pays 9:00.

4:30 guarantee for each day will govern.

It would be cheaper to lay the crew over then pay the credit involved. It would however be legal as far as I know.

Do white slips or swap with the pot run first in PCS?

I don't think so. There is a 10pm to midnight cutout on the 4:30 per day. This flight would be leaving well beyond that time in the situation you describe.

White slips

PG.....similar to many junior FDX trips......tent, meet camel's nose....

OK, after 10 you're probably correct. Just don't know.

Did one recently just like this but left before 10 and it paid 9:00.

Ahhh, yes.. The staffing formula, the one that forced the Company to publish the "mini-emergency AE" a couple months ago for 35 A320 CA's. Then the Company had to convert and park a solid number of those awards because DAL would have violated said formula otherwise..

Those new CA's with 3 week to 2 month long vacations pretty much LOVE that PWA provision now!!

(But yes, the staffing formula is on the very bottom edge of what it takes to truly staff the airline, hence the need to keep improving it!)

If there is truth to this, I certainly hope flowbacks are in the works as well. We may not need them today, but we didn't need them in the summer of 2001 either....then look what happened.

I am gonna take a page from my Northern brethren. "OK... where is it written?"

I don't see how a broken rotation on a CDO would ever leave before midnight let alone 10 pm.

This is what I have been saying.

The mysterious item in the Chairman's Letter "Adopts FAR FDP limits for actual operations" could be very bad for us.

The 12.D.1 table is the reason we don't have CDOs right now. If we change that without some serious limitations we will have a lot more trips like the above. As a RES pilot I have done a CDO here at Delta but it complied with the 12.D.1 table. It wasn't fun but it was legal. It also wasn't practical for the company since the PWA duty limit had us duty in at 0300 to comply with the duty limit.

I've said it twice before, CDOs and SDP are two separate things and with the changes to our contract being discussed BOTH would be possible.

It's one thing to have a 6 hour break between flights it's entirely another to just fly a 12 hour FDP turn, with no beak, in the middle of the night.

Above my paygrade, not sure. I believe the concern that was raised is scheduling could create new CDOs to cover broken rotations. And if so, why couldn't they build a CDO which covers a departure that's scheduled before 10pm?

Maybe it's restricted, but 9E is currently flying plenty of CDOs which depart between 9pm and 10pm. I know because I regularly commute on them. BTW, the vast majority of crews I talk to when stuck in the JS hate them. I honestly didn't get too deep in the conversation because I never thought we'd see them here.

Maybe we can fly all these CDOs out of Memphis and Louisville.
Carry boxes instead of pax.

Is there any money in that?

Picked up one of these the other night. 1 leg to layover, DH back the next day. Sign-in 2153 depart 2253. Paid 9:00. So I'm guessing that it made it just under the cutoff of 2200 and that it's based on sign-in, not departure.

Sky Club.
 

Anybody else a little ticked off about the new guest policy at SkyClub?

Will all these questions a about what is and is not legal be openly addressed by Dalpa?

Or will it be one-sided cherry picking with only best-case scenarios?

And when do we get to see the TA??

To a much greater extent than the rushed, inadequate C12...this TA seems, for lack of a better term... off.

I got tired reading that.

Missing something? Yeah, I think you're missing where you call in fatigued in PHX. :eek:

What is the new policy? No backpacks or heelies?

When I purchased my membership, you were allowed 2 guests. It was nice to be able to take the spousal unit with me on the rare occasion when we travel anymore. Now, that is not allowed.

Have they announced the time and place for the MEC meeting?

Sailing you are correct they do need to cover the next days flight. But I have seen pairings that do dead head home leg. If they are stand up pairings r that negates the 515 we just got

Bitten again, I'm glad I never sprang for that. Jeez, it never stops......:(

It's times like these I wish we had the old alpa board back. Guys have good points that get missed by many pilots

I think you'd be surprised at the number of "lurkers" on this thread.
Especially when something is happening. (like a new TA)

It's a safety issue....:rolleyes:

wind the clock.

All right, I've been catching up on the last several pages, and here's my two cents. One, this has to go to MEMRAT. Two, anyone who thinks we're going to get 6 hours rest on a CDO hasn't done them before. The whole point is that it's continuous duty; the company wants these so they can handle late night or early morning IROPs without extra pilots. Do three in a row and you'll be more tired than you ever were doing an all nighter or an international trip. I've done plenty at a regional, and they suck. Plus, this will set up precedent for C2015, and why would we consider concessions like this given the company's financial stability? An absolute no vote, period.

If it makes you feel any better, the people who pay your bills (read: customers), are also quite upset at this development.

Googled this instead of reviewing DeltaNet:

Delta SkyClub Access Policy Updated -- No More Guests! - One Mile at a Time

I cannot believe they are gonna try and shove these CDO's down our throats!
A significant change to our PWA, with no survey or polling.
They are just starting to put the spin and sugar coating on this one folks.
This is complete BS !!!!! Write your Reps!!!!
Dont let the camel's nose under the tent and tell our Reps to stop horse trading during the biggest boom for the airline in decades!!!!!

Why do you think this sets a bad precedent?
 

As a longtime in base senior reserve I find the 1.5 pay no credit attractive. I would like to hear your concerns.

Thanks

Exactly!^^^

My rep told me they are just responding to guys complaining in the lounge about "unproductive" 30 hr layovers..I told him I'm plenty productive with an IPA and wings at TacoMac in CLT..he wasn't impressed.

I get the feeling this is a done deal. Without MEMRAT, they're gonna pretty much guarantee the resurrection of DPA..IMHO.

Is a same day/next day WS supposed to be a proffer? I just checked my schedule at noon and there's a WS on there for tomorrow. Placed on there at 1100.

Exactly!^^^

My rep told me they are just responding to guys complaining in the lounge about "unproductive" 30 hr layovers..I told him I'm plenty productive with an IPA and wings at TacoMac in CLT..he wasn't impressed.

I get the feeling this is a done deal. Without MEMRAT, they're gonna pretty much guarantee the resurrection of DPA..IMHO.


^^^^^^^

I agree completely, all this TA does is fix one problem by introducing another problem. A simple survey that asks....
"would you consider CDO's"
would be decisive and give direction.
The spin of.... "well they will go super senior" can be countered with "ok then it would be free to put an opt-out clause for every pilot that knows better"

This is garbage, what are they trying to do here....give DPA the keys on a silver platter?

For the new ADG, the RAW part will come out in the wash anyway. If you get into the next bucket sooner, so will everyone else, so its benefit will be minimal except perhaps in smaller categories in thin months. Being full sooner is a benefit though, and I do appreciate that. I just don't think its worth giving up 2 hours on day one as well as:

The 3 hour leash is the only possible interpretation I can see from the information we've gotten so far. The only other way I can read it is we will have a 13 hour call back leash…and then need 10 hours of rest, making long call effectively 23 hours. But we all know there is NO WAY that is happening. We still need 10 hours prospective rest per the FAR's, so with LC being 13 hours that leaves 3 hours (or less if we were to for some reason agree to it) to call back.

It really seems this is what was agreed to.

If it's > 12 hours out it is not a proffer.

Thanks. Live and learn.

True. I've had a lot of experience with these at the regionals. They are completely exhausting and absolutely unsafe.

Wait, what, huh....Buzz help a brother out. What in the world are they talking about? I need some schoolin... Cheers H

"There's no money in freight."


Tr

Lol. I got stuck with a 4 day greenslip that I didn't want once. Have to be careful slipping. Want what you bid. I'm a lot more careful with pcs these days.