Adolphus Coors

You absolutely amaze me. You are so myopic you can't even see the other side of the story. For action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So if we get a program that ENSURES commuters get to work what is the opposite reaction? In your mind its all roses. No dropped trips, less sick calls, etc...... OK well what does it mean for the 20 year guy and his family trying to utilize their benefits to get home from vacation? What does it mean to the rest of us who would rather focus on pay raises and and retirement? What does it mean to other employees? If this was a win win situation it would already have been implemented. Or maybe you are just so smart and everyone in management and DALPA is so stupid we can't figure it out.

OK screw your fellow employees so YOU can get to work. Sounds like your trying to build your ladder so you can pull it up on them.

siemprerojo

Ok, well we disagree. You think that a senior guy should be able to go to and fro on vacation even though he is probably senior enough to take a seat in the back. I think that a guy every once in a while should have a dependable way of getting to work assuming the policy isn't abused. Maybe some day we'll get a chance to vote on it.
Time to move on.
Happy Holidays.

newKnow

Coors,


I have read thru all of your points and I wand you to understand that 1.) I do know about the DAL commuter/call in honest policy, and 2.) I am fully capable of seeing issues from both sides.

But, I wonder if you even see where your argument is going? Your main point seems to be that a pilot who is senior and going on vacation with his family shouldn't be bumped by a more junior pilot who is going to work. Ok. I understand that traveling with the family while on vacation can be very hectic. But, I also understand that when I do travel for vacation I am more flexible than when I am traveling to work. I can leave a day earlier to make it to my vacation wonderland or heaven forbid take the early morning flight. At Northwest, we even have special higher priority passes for vacation travelers-- vacation passes (16 per year).

On the other hand, the pilot is commuting to work has to do so 3-4 times a month. Most times he/she will try to do so the same day so as to avoid hotel costs and expenses and to get that extra family time (you know, see the kids so they remember who you are; help the spouse around the house; and just plain relax). That pilot does not have the same flexibility as the vacationing pilot. He has to be in base for check-in at a certian time. While he can leave early, that is not desireable. Think safety. A well rested pilot is a safer pilot.

Another point to be made is the obvious one. When a pilot can't get to work, that same vacationing pilot with his family may get stuck in their tracks because they don't have a pilot.

Dude, I know you know all of this and I know that DAL has a call in honest policy of sorts. But, from all accounts, the NWA policy is better. Can't you just admit it and move on? All NWA stuff is not bad and all DAL stuff is not good.

Let me help you along by making an admission. At first, I thought the DAL uniforms were a little strange and outdated. I mean come on, double breasted jackets went out in the 70's. When I went in for my fitting, a called it a straight jacket because it just didn't feel right. But, now that I look at them, they present a professional image and I am starting to like them. The DAL uniform may be better then the NWA uniform, ok? I was wrong and I embrace the change. (Even the hat)

So come on Coors, join me. Just admit the NWA call in honest policy is better for everyone (even the senior pilot vacationer and has family) and move on. This discussion does not have to be that complicated.

New K Now

Ferd149

Like any of us can use our travel benefits, for family travel, anymore with the reduced seats and loads........

Like you said, way above our paygrade. No use yelling at each other about it.

Happy New Year,
Ferd

newKnow

Ok. I wanted to respond to this one individually:

1. The 20 year guy can buy positive space tickets at a 60% discount for his vacation trips that he takes once or twice a year. The commuting pilot could potentially have to pay the expense 3 or 4 times a month.

2. The call in honest policy at NWA required no expense of negotiating capital. It came about as a mutual agreement that was implemented on a trial basis. The company decided to keep it because it worked so well.

3. If I'm not mistaken (and I might be), one Richard Anderson was the CEO of Northwest Airlines when the call in honest policy was intalled there. Maybe he was smart then and maybe you are being resistant and trying to defend your DAL policy for no reason.

Embrace the change, dude. Because as my cohort previously stated, "... it's a comin"

New K Now

slowplay

Making this a safety argument is not wise.

You're making the argument that pilots shouldn't be allowed to commute for safety reasons (rest makes a safer pilot), and if they choose to commute that time should count toward duty time (it is a SAFETY argument, right?).

Yup. Choices have consequences. If where I choose to live precludes me from getting to work reliably, I'm sure my management would have an interest in my performance.

No question in my mind, the former NWA commuting policy was more generous to commuters than the Delta policy. I'd withhold judgement on whether or not it's better, though. Former NWA pilots are more geographically dispersed than original Delta pilots. Delta experienced more major base closures and cutbacks than NWA (SEA, PDX, SFO, ORD, BOS, IAH, MSY, MCO, MIA), with DFW and BOS having substantial local pilot populations.

It will be interesting to see where the combined group wants to go with this during negotiations.

newKnow

You guys are really making this more difficult than it has to be. I'm going to hit the treadmill, so I'll get back to you.

But in the mean time, here's an example:

Pilot has a checkin time of 3 pm.

He has 3 flights that arrive to base before 3.
6 am, 9 am and 12 noon.
The 9 am and noon flights have 5 seats open on each, but the 6 am flight is wide open.

A prudent pilot with no commuter friendly policy will take the 6 am flight, which makes for a VERY long day, especially if he has a 12 or 13 hour duty day.

New K Now

P.S. Thanks for the advice on the sageness of my arguments and I am not making the argument that pilots should not be able to commute.

P.P.S. You know what, I forgot. You guys are right. Let's just keep whatever DAL policy there was out there before. I think I'll call my ex-wife for a more productive conversation.

Ferd149

Slow,

I think you make my cost of moving argument for me........I doubt you'll see it that way

What you say shows the law of unanticipated consequences. The consequences of having everyone move to a base and then closing that base is hudge. You either have to pay to move them again, or you have hudge blocks of commuters. We have that too, but smaller, with our hub to hub commuters, those guys are REALLY crazy.

As you point out, we are spread out in places we actually want to live because we can. I would argue that is what will happen over time if we stay more commuter friendly. Once again, I will argue it's cheeper for the company than moving us as markets change.

Anyway, like I've said, it's a great stress reducer that the vast majority of us rarely use. It helps the company with their sick calls and reserve usage, we'll see where it all comes down.

Ferd

sailingfun

I don't think most former NWA pilots understand what the former Delta pilots are trying to say. First there is a commuter policy at Delta. It takes away the stress of getting there since you are covered if you abide by the policy. If Delta crew scheds really needs you they will give you positive space. I like the NWA policy. Its better then the Delta policy for a commuting pilot. I commute. I also however have to look at the big picture. You say its a win win situation. Well Delta has not had a real problem with commuters getting to work. The use of sick leave was checked once between commuters and non commuters and it was exactly the same.
The key is that getting this out of Delta managment would be very expensive. It would be a major shift in policy at Delta about treating all employees the same. It was discussed and asked for in the recent new contract. We did not get it. It in fact would not work at all in some markets. DFW-ATL is a example. If we had this policy we would be bumping a lot of commuting flight attendants also trying to get to work. Is that fair? Do you realize that there are actually a lot of dispatchers, mechanics and even CSA agents that also commute. Would you extend it to everyone?
In short the NWA commuter policy would be great for me personally. I am not sure it would be great for Delta and I don't view it as a win win and Delta management wont view it that way. They will want something back. What are you willing to give up for the policy. If it costs 2 percent in pay how will the non commuting pilot feel about that.
The last thing to keep in mind is that the commuting policy at Delta is contractual. Yours was a policy from management that could be changed or revoked at any time. That is a major point to keep in mind.

Bigflya

Gents,

Let's agree to disagree on the commuting policy stuff for now and switch gears for a moment. I thought the SLI stuff was dead and done. But what of this Christmas Eve present letter I rx from DALPA talking about a .25% assessment for an Intigration Relief Fund? Pulling the $$ until the fund reaches a cool mil$$. Is this for legal expenses because some are unhappy with the reward and don't know the definition of binding arbitration? From the numbers I've seen, most guys are within .1 or .2% of their original relative seniority and the most was about 3%. Let's not let this turn into USAir/AWA. Don't let the hire date next to the name drive you nuts. Each co hired different numbers at different times and for that we cannot change. The only one that will win here is the lawyers. Time to accept our award, integrate, make this merger work and look forward to becoming profitable and negotiating our next contract in 2012 as a combined, unified pilot group.