Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-29-2008, 05:03 AM
#3811
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,590
I would like to point out that Delta has a iron clad commuter policy. It just does not provide for a positive space seat. It does insure there is no action taken against a pilot if he can't get to work. If crew scheds really needs you they will give you positive space. In fact I was going to work one day and was bumped by another pilot who was going to work on a GS and crew scheds gave him positive space. As far as moving its a fact of life in any job. I live in a area with lots of people in the medical and banking professions. They are forced to move all the time. One guy with B of A moved here and planned on getting his kids through HS. He was here 7 months when they wanted him in San Fran. Told to expect to be there only two years and then back here. Its the norm in business not just airlines. Two families near me have dads that commute and are non airline. They fly to NYC and Boston on Sunday night and come back on Friday night every week. If your on the high paying track with a company your expected to move when and where they want you. You can sometimes turn down the job transfer but you are now no longer a team player and your career and advancement are over with that company.
P.S. I have commuted almost my entire career and still commute today.
P.S. I have commuted almost my entire career and still commute today.
Last edited by sailingfun; 12-29-2008 at 05:09 AM.
12-29-2008, 05:48 AM
#3812
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Let's just say for those of us who still or have commuted, this policy is worth its weight in gold. For those of us who have never commuted, you will not know how valuable something like this is.
I am all for taking "best practices" of both companies and I think this is one of them. FWIW, when I got recalled after a five year furlough, I was assigned NYC. Delta would have paid for my move, but I couldn't find a 700 sq. foot apartment less than $2k a month in rent. My wife didn't have a job up there, and quite frankly I didn't want to live in a concrete jungle. That's why I commuted until last year.
I am all for taking "best practices" of both companies and I think this is one of them. FWIW, when I got recalled after a five year furlough, I was assigned NYC. Delta would have paid for my move, but I couldn't find a 700 sq. foot apartment less than $2k a month in rent. My wife didn't have a job up there, and quite frankly I didn't want to live in a concrete jungle. That's why I commuted until last year.
12-29-2008, 05:56 AM
#3813
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Boeing 757 First Officer and Cessna 182H financier
Posts: 106
Well its been 5 times since 2001.
I CHOOSE to commute to work. Just because I CHOOSE to commute doesn't mean I should receive special privileges. Is your privilege to commute more important than an employees right to non rev based on seniority? I think only a few self centered pilots would answer yes to that question.
I CHOOSE to commute to work. Just because I CHOOSE to commute doesn't mean I should receive special privileges. Is your privilege to commute more important than an employees right to non rev based on seniority? I think only a few self centered pilots would answer yes to that question.
My hat is off to you if you are able to always guarantee your commute to work, even to frigid Minnesota. When I was based in DTW most of the pilots I flew with were responsible for getting themselves to work sometimes leaving 3 or 4 flights as backup (during crappy weather). It seems like most MSP pilots don't commute.
Happy commuting in this New Year!
Last edited by siemprerojo; 12-29-2008 at 06:03 AM.
12-29-2008, 06:17 AM
#3814
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
NewK..............
What you said!!
As usual, well written.
Ferd
What you said!!
As usual, well written.
Ferd
12-29-2008, 06:23 AM
#3815
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
.................
Last edited by Ferd149; 12-29-2008 at 06:48 AM. Reason: oops
12-29-2008, 06:41 AM
#3816
Pog Ma Hoin
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 7ER B
Posts: 208
Dude, are you serious? Ask our pilots (NWA) who moved to SEA, and HNL and LAX and BOS -- because we had bases there -- if they chose to commute. Yes, we had ALL Of those as bases, within the last 20 years. (While SEA is a base now, originally it opened then closed then opened then closed again.)
I hope I don't have to point out to you that these base closures and openings occured thru no fault or input from any pilot, they were just good/bad management decisions.
If there is anything out there that can possibly help any pilot, you should be for it. In this instance, we spend enough time away from home as it is, so any policy to ease our minds and allow us to spend a few more hours with our families should be kept.
The policy is great and I have never had to use it. But, it has allowed myself and many other old NWA pilots to commute with ease. Its amazing that you suggest that pilots move to where the company has its bases so they don't have to "choose" to commute.
Well to that I say, I'll pick up the family and kids and move anywhere you want me to when the company pays me the equivilent of what airline pilots were making in the 1970s', when our spouses didn't have to work to make the ends meet. Unfortunately, today's airline pilot salary requires that your spouse work to supplement the family income so you can send the kids to college and pay for your healthcare and plan for a retirement (BEFORE 65!!!!).
Many of our pilots have spouses who make more than them. Should they move too?
So, if you pay attention to us old NWA guys, we are telling you that the call in honest policy is a good thing. It is rarely used, but it offers us a somewhat stress free commute. It saves the company money from having to pay out increased sick pay and it allows the company to save their reserves. What more do you need?
This discussion, among many others, makes me want to ask some of you "Real Delta Pilots" if you are always going to reject EVERYTHING that was not part of the Delta culture before the merger? I mean, if you are fighting the call in honest policy now, if we had merged in the mid 90's , would you have been against even having the jumpseat available to us at all? At least Red Book guys will admit that Republic brought some good policies to NWA in 1986. Some of you guys are holding on to everything as pre merger is "Holy Delta" and if we didn't do it that way it must have been wrong -- even at your own expense. Hello Coors, you commute!!!
Snap out of it. Pick any two flights that will get you to work in time for check in, then make it to the airport in time for the first one. It's as easy as pie.
Let it go. Stop being so rigid. Change can be a good thing. Embrace it.
New K Now
I hope I don't have to point out to you that these base closures and openings occured thru no fault or input from any pilot, they were just good/bad management decisions.
If there is anything out there that can possibly help any pilot, you should be for it. In this instance, we spend enough time away from home as it is, so any policy to ease our minds and allow us to spend a few more hours with our families should be kept.
The policy is great and I have never had to use it. But, it has allowed myself and many other old NWA pilots to commute with ease. Its amazing that you suggest that pilots move to where the company has its bases so they don't have to "choose" to commute.
Well to that I say, I'll pick up the family and kids and move anywhere you want me to when the company pays me the equivilent of what airline pilots were making in the 1970s', when our spouses didn't have to work to make the ends meet. Unfortunately, today's airline pilot salary requires that your spouse work to supplement the family income so you can send the kids to college and pay for your healthcare and plan for a retirement (BEFORE 65!!!!).
Many of our pilots have spouses who make more than them. Should they move too? So, if you pay attention to us old NWA guys, we are telling you that the call in honest policy is a good thing. It is rarely used, but it offers us a somewhat stress free commute. It saves the company money from having to pay out increased sick pay and it allows the company to save their reserves. What more do you need?
This discussion, among many others, makes me want to ask some of you "Real Delta Pilots" if you are always going to reject EVERYTHING that was not part of the Delta culture before the merger? I mean, if you are fighting the call in honest policy now, if we had merged in the mid 90's , would you have been against even having the jumpseat available to us at all? At least Red Book guys will admit that Republic brought some good policies to NWA in 1986. Some of you guys are holding on to everything as pre merger is "Holy Delta" and if we didn't do it that way it must have been wrong -- even at your own expense. Hello Coors, you commute!!!
Snap out of it. Pick any two flights that will get you to work in time for check in, then make it to the airport in time for the first one. It's as easy as pie.
Let it go. Stop being so rigid. Change can be a good thing. Embrace it.
New K Now
If you read my other post I said I support a temporary priority to pilots commuting because of displacements or base closings.
You said I should be for anything that could possibly help another pilot. In this case if I help one pilot I am hurting another. I guess you only see it from your point of view.
At DAL if you are displaced you are can get moving expenses.
I don't see how you assume that I resist any ideas or policies from the NWA side based on my post. Besides I have no pull when it comes to setting policy at DAL. Way above my pay grade.............
12-29-2008, 06:58 AM
#3817
Pog Ma Hoin
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 7ER B
Posts: 208
Well I guess I'm self centered because if I have followed the rules, left myself a backup, choose not to uproot my family every year, leave my 90 year old dad and my 82 year old mom, leave the volunteer projects that I do in my community and I have to bump someone off the jumpseat who is going on vacation to Aruba so I can get to work, so be it. The NWA policy makes the pilot responsible for getting to work. Every once in a long while (I haven't even used the policy yet) the system breaks down and the pilot has to use the fall back. If a certain pilot is abusing the system then he/she needs to be hauled into the chief pilot's office and dealt with.
My hat is off to you if you are able to always guarantee your commute to work, even to frigid Minnesota. When I was based in DTW most of the pilots I flew with were responsible for getting themselves to work sometimes leaving 3 or 4 flights as backup (during crappy weather). It seems like most MSP pilots don't commute.
Happy commuting in this New Year!
My hat is off to you if you are able to always guarantee your commute to work, even to frigid Minnesota. When I was based in DTW most of the pilots I flew with were responsible for getting themselves to work sometimes leaving 3 or 4 flights as backup (during crappy weather). It seems like most MSP pilots don't commute.
Happy commuting in this New Year!
It seems that many NWA guys on this forum are unfamiliar with DAL's commuter, jumpseat, and moving policy. I would suggets that one read it.
12-29-2008, 07:12 AM
#3818
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: A330B
Posts: 210
I remember the resistance to change during the last merger, and it faded rather quickly. Change is coming for all of us. Old NWA pilots had four passes a quarter, no jumpseat, had to save every scrap of paper used during the flight for archive, and the SO had to fill out paysheets for the crew. "Come in Rangoon!". They used to give the third degree to someone asking to use the jumpseat. They are in Sun City now riding golf carts, denying rides to kids. I don't commute, but I suspect I'll have to in the future. I don't want to move to any other base, especially in this prolonged downturn for real estate. In case you haven't heard about it, most of the new directing Chief Pilots will be former NWA. I believe it was West Coast, Central, MSP, DTW, with former NWA guys and ATL and NYC former Delta. There most likely will be change to the policies regarding jumpseat, as they support the merits of 12,500 pilots not being paid to move. I say we are all mature enough to handle a decision that helps get pilots to work. What other reason other than a family emergency is more important to gain access to a jumpseat? A big reason we won't want to move is age. Both airlines have seasoned pilots, with families, parents that are aging, school preferences, spouses that work. and personal choices. Some of the hubs have tendencies to get snarled up frequently. ATL, and NYC need no explanation, SEA and ANC are WX and distance nightmares. Being a cheapskate, and averse to large crowds, I would choose to commute to a base accordingly, but the bottom line is "Change is a Comin."
12-29-2008, 07:24 AM
#3819
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Work
Posts: 507
I see your point, but don't agree, and I highly doubt you told the captain to pull the ladder up. Why should you get priority on a flight when it is you who chose not to live in base? What does that have to do with the "I got mine attitude" you so boldly suggest MANY of our senior pilots have. If you ask me it is you who has the self serving attitude in this case. Commuting to work is a privilege not a right! Why should an employee and his family be bumped off a flight so a commuter can get to work. Just because you choose to commute doesn't mean that other employees should be inconvenienced by it as well.
How do you know I CHOSE to commute? How do you know I don't have a family reason to live where I live? How do you know my situation?
Calling me self-centered for wanting a policy that ENSURES the pilots commuting to work get there so there are no interruptions in the schedule is so funny it's ridiculous. Self centered.....right.
Pull the ladder up adolph...man I can't WAIT until YOU hit the left seat.
12-29-2008, 07:39 AM
#3820
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
Well I guess I'm self centered because if I have followed the rules, left myself a backup, choose not to uproot my family every year, leave my 90 year old dad and my 82 year old mom, leave the volunteer projects that I do in my community and I have to bump someone off the jumpseat who is going on vacation to Aruba so I can get to work, so be it.
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