Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-16-2010, 11:44 AM
ATL A320 B
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: No longer MEM or 9, but still a guy.
Posts: 238
Sure they can - where does it say that? It's that they can't have you report for a trip without a 24 hour break in the past 7 days.
This is what the scheduling alert says:
Important note: There is no requirement to place a day of rest on the seventh consecutive on-call day if no 24 hour rest in the past seven days can be found. As long as a pilot has 24 hours rest in seven days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty he is legal. When needed, such rest is placed on the pilot’s line at the time that a domestic trip is assigned. This has the effect of providing him at least 24 hours notice to a domestic reserve flying assignment if he cannot look back and find 24 hours rest in the preceding seven days.
This is what the scheduling alert says:
Important note: There is no requirement to place a day of rest on the seventh consecutive on-call day if no 24 hour rest in the past seven days can be found. As long as a pilot has 24 hours rest in seven days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty he is legal. When needed, such rest is placed on the pilot’s line at the time that a domestic trip is assigned. This has the effect of providing him at least 24 hours notice to a domestic reserve flying assignment if he cannot look back and find 24 hours rest in the preceding seven days.
05-16-2010, 11:55 AM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
It looks like the way they are dealing with this is, if you are going to be assigned a trip after you have already been on reserve for 6 days they will have to release you for 24 hours before you report for that assigned trip. That will give you the 24 hr rest in the previous 7 consecutive days for look back.
Point is that this is a very grey area that should be addressed for those affected. Delta is the only airline i've heard of that interprets this reg differently.
05-16-2010, 11:59 AM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
From the NWA 2005 CBA:
Also from the Delta MEC Scheduling Alert on September 12, 2007:
DOMESTIC REST REQUIREMENTS
We have recently received a number of calls regarding FAR domestic rest requirements.
With normal, reduced and compensatory rest, this is probably the least understood part of
FAR 121.471, but is also one of the most important FAR’s for a pilot to understand.
Rest, as defined by the FAA, means having no present responsibility for work. In domestic
operations, the FAA also requires that the applicable rest requirements be applied to
reserve pilots. Therefore, time spent on long or short call in domestic operations, or
performing any duty for Delta, e.g., deadheading, is not rest for the purposes of domestic
flying. As a domestic reserve pilot, you cannot be made to call or answer a phone call or
beeper during a rest period, although you can voluntarily answer a call or make contact
with the Company. Also, a pilot on layover is not responsible to be contactable by the
company.
The language that governs FAR domestic rest requirements may be found in FAR 121.471 as
follows:
§ 121.471 Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements: All Flight
Crewmembers
(b) Except as provided....
...In plain English, this means that before accepting a domestic flight assignment, a pilot must
be able to look back 24 hours from the scheduled completion of each flight segment and find a
legally scheduled “normal” or “reduced” rest period within the previous 24 hours. The rest
period must be in accordance with the table below. If the rest is reduced rest, then within 24
hours from the beginning of the reduced rest, the pilot must be given a compensatory rest
period, the length of which also depends on the amount of scheduled flight time as shown in
the table. Under no circumstances may a flight crewmember receive less than an 8-hour rest
within a 24-hour period.
12. D.5. Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR’s) 121.471(d) and 121.481(d) shall be applied as 24 consecutive hours off in a seven calendar day period. (Note: This application may change with future FAA interpretations of the FAR’s.)
Also from the Delta MEC Scheduling Alert on September 12, 2007:
DOMESTIC REST REQUIREMENTS
We have recently received a number of calls regarding FAR domestic rest requirements.
With normal, reduced and compensatory rest, this is probably the least understood part of
FAR 121.471, but is also one of the most important FAR’s for a pilot to understand.
Rest, as defined by the FAA, means having no present responsibility for work. In domestic
operations, the FAA also requires that the applicable rest requirements be applied to
reserve pilots. Therefore, time spent on long or short call in domestic operations, or
performing any duty for Delta, e.g., deadheading, is not rest for the purposes of domestic
flying. As a domestic reserve pilot, you cannot be made to call or answer a phone call or
beeper during a rest period, although you can voluntarily answer a call or make contact
with the Company. Also, a pilot on layover is not responsible to be contactable by the
company.
The language that governs FAR domestic rest requirements may be found in FAR 121.471 as
follows:
§ 121.471 Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements: All Flight
Crewmembers
(b) Except as provided....
...In plain English, this means that before accepting a domestic flight assignment, a pilot must
be able to look back 24 hours from the scheduled completion of each flight segment and find a
legally scheduled “normal” or “reduced” rest period within the previous 24 hours. The rest
period must be in accordance with the table below. If the rest is reduced rest, then within 24
hours from the beginning of the reduced rest, the pilot must be given a compensatory rest
period, the length of which also depends on the amount of scheduled flight time as shown in
the table. Under no circumstances may a flight crewmember receive less than an 8-hour rest
within a 24-hour period.
05-16-2010, 12:04 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
but if they have you on call for 6+1 day then you're "working" 7 days without the 24 required designated rest. I believe you're saying that if they schedule you a trip on the 7th or 8th day that they'll give us 24 hours rest prior? Either way, that still has you responsible to the company for more than 7 days.
Point is that this is a very grey area that should be addressed for those affected. Delta is the only airline i've heard of that interprets this reg differently.
Point is that this is a very grey area that should be addressed for those affected. Delta is the only airline i've heard of that interprets this reg differently.
05-16-2010, 12:09 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
From the NWA 2005 CBA:
Also from the Delta MEC Scheduling Alert on September 12, 2007:
DOMESTIC REST REQUIREMENTS
We have recently received a number of calls regarding FAR domestic rest requirements.
With normal, reduced and compensatory rest, this is probably the least understood part of
FAR 121.471, but is also one of the most important FAR’s for a pilot to understand.
Rest, as defined by the FAA, means having no present responsibility for work. In domestic
operations, the FAA also requires that the applicable rest requirements be applied to
reserve pilots. Therefore, time spent on long or short call in domestic operations, or
performing any duty for Delta, e.g., deadheading, is not rest for the purposes of domestic
flying. As a domestic reserve pilot, you cannot be made to call or answer a phone call or
beeper during a rest period, although you can voluntarily answer a call or make contact
with the Company. Also, a pilot on layover is not responsible to be contactable by the
company.
The language that governs FAR domestic rest requirements may be found in FAR 121.471 as
follows:
§ 121.471 Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements: All Flight
Crewmembers
(b) Except as provided....
...In plain English, this means that before accepting a domestic flight assignment, a pilot must
be able to look back 24 hours from the scheduled completion of each flight segment and find a
legally scheduled “normal” or “reduced” rest period within the previous 24 hours. The rest
period must be in accordance with the table below. If the rest is reduced rest, then within 24
hours from the beginning of the reduced rest, the pilot must be given a compensatory rest
period, the length of which also depends on the amount of scheduled flight time as shown in
the table. Under no circumstances may a flight crewmember receive less than an 8-hour rest
within a 24-hour period.
12. D.5. Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR’s) 121.471(d) and 121.481(d) shall be applied as 24 consecutive hours off in a seven calendar day period. (Note: This application may change with future FAA interpretations of the FAR’s.)
Also from the Delta MEC Scheduling Alert on September 12, 2007:
DOMESTIC REST REQUIREMENTS
We have recently received a number of calls regarding FAR domestic rest requirements.
With normal, reduced and compensatory rest, this is probably the least understood part of
FAR 121.471, but is also one of the most important FAR’s for a pilot to understand.
Rest, as defined by the FAA, means having no present responsibility for work. In domestic
operations, the FAA also requires that the applicable rest requirements be applied to
reserve pilots. Therefore, time spent on long or short call in domestic operations, or
performing any duty for Delta, e.g., deadheading, is not rest for the purposes of domestic
flying. As a domestic reserve pilot, you cannot be made to call or answer a phone call or
beeper during a rest period, although you can voluntarily answer a call or make contact
with the Company. Also, a pilot on layover is not responsible to be contactable by the
company.
The language that governs FAR domestic rest requirements may be found in FAR 121.471 as
follows:
§ 121.471 Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements: All Flight
Crewmembers
(b) Except as provided....
...In plain English, this means that before accepting a domestic flight assignment, a pilot must
be able to look back 24 hours from the scheduled completion of each flight segment and find a
legally scheduled “normal” or “reduced” rest period within the previous 24 hours. The rest
period must be in accordance with the table below. If the rest is reduced rest, then within 24
hours from the beginning of the reduced rest, the pilot must be given a compensatory rest
period, the length of which also depends on the amount of scheduled flight time as shown in
the table. Under no circumstances may a flight crewmember receive less than an 8-hour rest
within a 24-hour period.
this .
05-16-2010, 12:12 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
From when scheduling calls:
Note that this is a fl ight limitation. A pilot may fl y for 6 days and train
or deadhead on the 7th day. A reserve pilot may be on call for any
number of consecutive days, but must have been released from telephone
responsibilities for 24 hours at some point in the past 7 days prior to
reporting for domestic flight duty.
Note that this is a fl ight limitation. A pilot may fl y for 6 days and train
or deadhead on the 7th day. A reserve pilot may be on call for any
number of consecutive days, but must have been released from telephone
responsibilities for 24 hours at some point in the past 7 days prior to
reporting for domestic flight duty.
05-16-2010, 12:13 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Forgive me super, I'm just posting everything I can find that mentions it. Just sticking up on a "board" so we can look at it.
05-16-2010, 12:14 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
From when scheduling calls:
Note that this is a fl ight limitation. A pilot may fl y for 6 days and train
or deadhead on the 7th day. A reserve pilot may be on call for any
number of consecutive days, but must have been released from telephone
responsibilities for 24 hours at some point in the past 7 days prior to
reporting for domestic flight duty.
Note that this is a fl ight limitation. A pilot may fl y for 6 days and train
or deadhead on the 7th day. A reserve pilot may be on call for any
number of consecutive days, but must have been released from telephone
responsibilities for 24 hours at some point in the past 7 days prior to
reporting for domestic flight duty.
05-16-2010, 12:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,325
Once the AE closes, how long till we get the results?
05-16-2010, 12:18 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
OK I can't get a straight answer for this. I had nine days of reserve in a row. A few former NWA friends of mine said they needed to call me and put me to rest for 24 hours and long call doesn't count for that rest. I worked or was on short call for 8 of the 9 days and one long call day. Former NWA friends that's bull, they needed to call me and give me 24 off. I called scheduling and they said there is no such rule. Hmmm?
Now if you had them roll your days off then okay, that needs to be looked at.
There is this on page 23-41 of the PWA:
11. A reserve pilot who flies on an X-day due to an IA, GS or reroute will be given nine
hours free of duty upon his release at the completion of his rotation.
a. His X-day(s) will begin immediately following such nine-hour period and will
continue until he has received a period of 24 hours free of duty for each interrupted
and remaining X-day in his scheduled X-day block.
b. If the remaining days in the bid period are insufficient to contain the X-day(s), the
pilot will be granted an additional day(s) off under Section 23 S. 16.
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