Superpilot92

FARs

If i'm on call today, I'm not on designated rest. If i do that 6 days in a row and never have a designated 24 hour rest then when the 7th day comes around you must have rest.

Would you fly 35 hours in a given 7 day period if they told you to? Scheduling can call it what they want but if i'm on reserve duty i'm not on rest.

FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.471 effective as of 02/26/1996

Sec. 121.471

Part 121 OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS
Subpart Q--Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements: Domestic Operations

Sec. 121.471

Flight time limitations and rest requirements: All flight crewmembers.


(a) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air transportation or in other commercial flying if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed--
(1) 1,000 hours in any calendar year;
(2) 100 hours in any calendar month;
(3) 30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;
(4) 8 hours between required rest periods.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule a flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time during the 24 consecutive hours preceding the scheduled completion of any flight segment without a scheduled rest period during that 24 hours of at least the following:
(1) 9 consecutive hours of rest for less than 8 hours of scheduled flight time.
(2) 10 consecutive hours of rest for 8 or more but less than 9 hours of scheduled flight time.
(3) 11 consecutive hours of rest for 9 or more hours of scheduled flight time.
(c) A certificate holder may schedule a flight crewmember for less than the rest required in paragraph (b) of this section or may reduce a scheduled rest under the following conditions:
(1) A rest required under paragraph (b)(1) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 10 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.
(2) A rest required under paragraph (b)(2) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 11 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.
(3) A rest required under paragraph (b)(3) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 9 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 12 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.
(4) No certificate holder may assign, nor may any flight crewmember perform any flight time with the certificate holder unless the flight crewmember has had at least the minimum rest required under this paragraph.
(d) Each certificate holder conducting domestic operations shall relieve each flight crewmember engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive days.
(e) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may assign any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept assignment to any duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period.
(f) Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that a certificate holder requires of a flight crewmember and provides to transport the crewmember to an airport at which he is to serve on a flight as a crewmember, or from an airport at which he was relieved from duty to return to his home station, is not considered part of a rest period.
(g) A flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled for flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the flights to which he is assigned are scheduled and normally terminate within the limitations, but due to circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder (such as adverse
weather conditions), are not at the time of departure expected to reach their destination within the scheduled time.

Pineapple Guy

Good grief! How much do you need in retirement? If you're assuming 12% annual compounding from now until age 60, with PBGC money and DAL putting in 12-14%, you will have many, many millions.

Furthermore, are you assuming all those millions are left to your children, or do you EVER eat into principal during retirement?

Just trying to understand your rationale that you have to work to 65 to accomplish your retirement goals.

nwaf16dude

What is the time format they want in the "minimum time from award to report" on a green slip request? it shows hhh:mm, but that's just not making sense to me. Does 015:00 mean I want fifteen hours notice? If green slips are only for same or next day flying, why would they need three digits for the hours?

satchip

Are you saying that someone could bid that seat prior to their 12th year or are you saying that the longevity clock resets when one bids Captain?

iaflyer

Superpilot: short answer 'cause I'm out. I think Short or long call isn't duty but isn't rest either.

satchip

It's not a matter of how much one needs for retirement, it's how much one wants. If one is willing to work hard and save for his own retirement far be it for anyone to tell him how much is enough. If DAL 88 thinks and wants to work till he is 100 to generate the savings needed for his personal financial goals so be it. It is his right. Good on ya for not wanting to suck of the Government teat.

65 will go the way of 60. Sucks for me right now but right is not always comfortable.

DAL I understand your argument for "restoration". It's in your self interest to maximize your current income for the next 15 years. I don't agree with your way to go about it, but I understand and respect your opinion.

Pineapple Guy

I agree 100% and I'm not dissing DAL88 for wanting to fly to 65. I'm just questioning his math. Assume a pilot turns 60 on 12/31/19, and assume he's got $500k today in his 401k/DC. With that earning 12% (his assumption, not mine), and just counting DAL's contributions (not his) and assuming he continues earning his 12% until he's 90, he can retire at 60 with $168k/year income (then increasing 3%/year so his buying power remains constant). If he waits until 65, he'll have $332k/year. Plus PBGC, if its there. Plus SS if its there.

Again, if that's what he wants, I'm fine with that. I was just curious what he was using for numbers.

Superpilot92

The company is determining what the definition of "Duty" is so that it benefits them. There isnt a set stone definition of "Duty" that i know of so it could be argued that the company's determination of the FARs is wrong. This should be brought up with the union. At NWA the company adhered to the FARs and if we had a stretch of reserve days exceeding 7 days we ALWAYS got a 24 period of designated rest to meet the FARs. As far as i'm concerned the way the company interprets this is an FAR violation. If i was in this position i'd be calling the Union and or the FAA for an official determination before i potentially busted a reg.

satchip

OK then, I'll climb down from my high horse. It just sounded like you were questioning his desire for more income. I stand corrected.

satchip

Super, I'm new to this civilian thing, but I don't see long call as "duty" for FAR purposes. I've not no obligation while on long call. I just have to be able to report for duty when 12 hours from the time they notify me. I could be sipping a Mai Tai on the beach in Bimini if I had a private jet to get me back to NY in time for report. It's not rest either but to say the Company is violating the FARs for not calling it duty is stretching it a bit, IMHO.

As far as your former contract is concerned, was the fact that you had separate SC/LC bid lines a factor in the wording? 7 days of reserve for the junior guy would be 7 days of SC. That would be duty and hence the contract wording and scheduling practice? Just grasping at straws here.