Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-09-2010, 07:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Actually it would be "All Y'all". I used Yankee English in deference to our Northern brethren.
05-09-2010, 07:40 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 31
This fence is not going to be the deciding factor as to whether or not DAL buys more aircraft. If they think it is to their advantage to do so, they will do it now in any cobination of replacement (744 or 787) or new aircraft. They will work with LM and get it done, especially if it means additional Capt. positions or more new hires. If they have to pay protect some pilots they will. Bottom line, if they need the aircraft to compete, it's going to get done. The fence won't stop them.
05-09-2010, 07:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,233
I heard the same thing scoop and it came from somewhere other than APC. It was specifically stated that the company was sure if they parked the 747's then got more 777's that were flying the routes the 747 had been flying that they would be considered replacement aircraft and be subject to the fences. The specific I heard was the DTW base because they would need two categories, one with non-replacement 777's flown by fDAL and another with the replacements flown by fNWA. They figured it would be cheaper to keep the 747's until the fences fall down.
05-09-2010, 08:00 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,235
I heard a rumor from my best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who said that the hiring is to backfill all the increased widebody flying. So if all the positions are not filled with the fall AE, new hires will once again be headed to the 7ER
05-09-2010, 08:27 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
05-09-2010, 09:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Do we own the 744's, and if so are they paid off, or are they leased?
Denny
Denny
05-09-2010, 09:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,858
It's actually fairly easy. The "fences" that were up after the NWA and Republic mergers weren't fences, but rather quotas.
Read line 5 of the award NW/DL SLI award:
5. Should the merged company take delivery of any aircraft which is/are a replacement of any aircraft covered by Paragraph 4., the captain positions and, as applicable, the first officer positions on each such replacement aircraft will be allocated in accordance with the Paragraph 4. restrictions on the type it is replacing.
Allocations are the same as quotas. You take a snapshot of the staffing of the 744, and you apply that as "red" staffing on any 777 category. As the SLI only applies to position staffing/displacement, once people are in the seats, it's treated as one big category with people bidding their seniority (same as if there are insufficient bidders).
We had red and green guys flying the same equipment together, even replacement equipment, for years and years in accordance with the NW/REP merger SLI using this process.
This is a molehill, not a mountain. Does it cause a little bit of administrative fiddling during awards/displacements? Yup. But that's about it.
They didn't want the 777s because they didn't want them. The SLI had nothing to do with it.
Nu
05-09-2010, 09:36 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
05-09-2010, 10:07 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
DOT: US grants new Tokyo routes to Delta, American, Hawaiian; United and Continental left out
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- Delta Air Lines, American, and Hawaiian are on track to get four new routes to Tokyo Haneda airport under a preliminary Transportation Department decision on Friday.
The tentative decision would give Hawaiian Airlines its first scheduled flights to Japan, and makes Delta -- already the biggest U.S. carrier to Asia -- an even more dominant player over the Pacific.
Haneda has been off-limits to U.S. carriers since 1978. It has mostly been a domestic airport, but it's desirable for U.S. carriers because it is closer to the center of Tokyo than Narita airport, which is already served by Delta, United, and American.
The tentative order divvies up the right to take off and land once per day on flights between the approved cities.
It's a big win for Hawaiian Airlines, which plans to fly from Honolulu. The DOT said it favored Hawaiian's application because it would increase competition and be good for the Hawaiian economy.
Delta Air Lines Inc. also came out well, getting permission to fly from Los Angeles and Detroit. Delta flies to Tokyo Narita from 11 cities, including a flight from Detroit. But the DOT said Delta's plan to use large Boeing 747s would increase competition on the new routes. The more seats on a route, the less airlines can generally charge for them. Delta's 747s seat 403 people compared to the Boeing 777s and 767s proposed by the other carriers, which seat roughly 250.
American Airlines, a unit of AMR Corp., would fly to Haneda airport from New York.
Left waiting at the gate were Continental Airlines Inc. and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines. They also applied for the Tokyo routes -- United to fly from San Francisco, Continental from Newark, and from Guam on its Continental Micronesia unit.
The DOT said it looked at the geography and competitive situations in choosing the winning airlines. United and Continental on Monday announced plans to combine into the world's largest carrier. Transportation Department spokesman Bill Mosley said that was not a factor in denying new routes to those two carriers.
United spokesman Mike Trevino said the airline still believes it has the best route proposal. He said United will file a response with the DOT.
Continental said in a written statement that it was disappointed with the decision and that it will work with the Transportation Department on "future opportunities" to fly to Tokyo Haneda. It did not say whether it would appeal the current decision.
Additional comments on the DOT preliminary decision are due in 10 days.
Once the DOT issues a final decision, the winning airlines must begin service by Jan. 29.
The slots awarded preliminarily on Friday won't become available until the U.S. and Japan sign a new U.S.-Japan open skies agreement finalized in December, and until construction on a fourth runway at Haneda is finished. The runway is expected to be finished in October.
The order says the new flights to the U.S. will have to leave Haneda between midnight and 7 a.m.
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- Delta Air Lines, American, and Hawaiian are on track to get four new routes to Tokyo Haneda airport under a preliminary Transportation Department decision on Friday.
The tentative decision would give Hawaiian Airlines its first scheduled flights to Japan, and makes Delta -- already the biggest U.S. carrier to Asia -- an even more dominant player over the Pacific.
Haneda has been off-limits to U.S. carriers since 1978. It has mostly been a domestic airport, but it's desirable for U.S. carriers because it is closer to the center of Tokyo than Narita airport, which is already served by Delta, United, and American.
The tentative order divvies up the right to take off and land once per day on flights between the approved cities.
It's a big win for Hawaiian Airlines, which plans to fly from Honolulu. The DOT said it favored Hawaiian's application because it would increase competition and be good for the Hawaiian economy.
Delta Air Lines Inc. also came out well, getting permission to fly from Los Angeles and Detroit. Delta flies to Tokyo Narita from 11 cities, including a flight from Detroit. But the DOT said Delta's plan to use large Boeing 747s would increase competition on the new routes. The more seats on a route, the less airlines can generally charge for them. Delta's 747s seat 403 people compared to the Boeing 777s and 767s proposed by the other carriers, which seat roughly 250.
American Airlines, a unit of AMR Corp., would fly to Haneda airport from New York.
Left waiting at the gate were Continental Airlines Inc. and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines. They also applied for the Tokyo routes -- United to fly from San Francisco, Continental from Newark, and from Guam on its Continental Micronesia unit.
The DOT said it looked at the geography and competitive situations in choosing the winning airlines. United and Continental on Monday announced plans to combine into the world's largest carrier. Transportation Department spokesman Bill Mosley said that was not a factor in denying new routes to those two carriers.
United spokesman Mike Trevino said the airline still believes it has the best route proposal. He said United will file a response with the DOT.
Continental said in a written statement that it was disappointed with the decision and that it will work with the Transportation Department on "future opportunities" to fly to Tokyo Haneda. It did not say whether it would appeal the current decision.
Additional comments on the DOT preliminary decision are due in 10 days.
Once the DOT issues a final decision, the winning airlines must begin service by Jan. 29.
The slots awarded preliminarily on Friday won't become available until the U.S. and Japan sign a new U.S.-Japan open skies agreement finalized in December, and until construction on a fourth runway at Haneda is finished. The runway is expected to be finished in October.
The order says the new flights to the U.S. will have to leave Haneda between midnight and 7 a.m.
05-09-2010, 10:22 AM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Even then it might not be possible. This is a binding arbitration award. I think only the arbitrator could change it.
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
RA already knew the correct answer as he worked in Labor Relations at fNW when the Roberts Award (NW/Eep SLI Award) existed. There is no fence between crews once they are qualified on the aircraft, the fence applies to who is AWARDED the seat on a bid. Once the seat is awarded you are just a line qualified 777/747 pilot and can be mixed accordingly. The food fight part is determining how many positions belong to each side of the fence if they are announced as replacement aircraft.
I can't remember how many supplemental awards we had to the Roberts award to clarify the intent of the original award. The last one I testified for was number 12 ...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
