Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-09-2010, 03:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,414
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
05-09-2010, 04:50 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 744B
Posts: 51
Even then it might not be possible. This is a binding arbitration award. I think only the arbitrator could change it.
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
05-09-2010, 05:24 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
I believe Sailing is right on this one. Delta looked at a bunch of 777-300's over a year ago and the dual bases and not wanting the debt with the economy in the tubes killed the deal. Look for a big order for 777's to show up when the fences come down in 4 or so years.
05-09-2010, 05:38 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Well, for May they gave out 28 REG lines on MSP 88 B and 28 RES lines. So 50% or better as of right now, which as you said is early in the game.
I think 80% is the average, I looked at an established stable category like the 320 DTW and its 82.5%.
If you look at 88 ATL you'll see you need 79% or better to hold a line with 357 REGs and 95 RES. Now our estimated line count for May matched the actual, I guess we're adding 25 pilots so if we don't add any additional flying then you need to be 75% or better. I believe weekends off on the 88 ATL B REG requires you to be in the 38%, i.e. a 10 year FO that is a better than mid 2000 hire.
I think 80% is the average, I looked at an established stable category like the 320 DTW and its 82.5%.
If you look at 88 ATL you'll see you need 79% or better to hold a line with 357 REGs and 95 RES. Now our estimated line count for May matched the actual, I guess we're adding 25 pilots so if we don't add any additional flying then you need to be 75% or better. I believe weekends off on the 88 ATL B REG requires you to be in the 38%, i.e. a 10 year FO that is a better than mid 2000 hire.
I don't know, but by the looks of the last bid and the new positions on this bid that may be a good place to be. Other than NYC, your seniority will be better in that category than any other in the system. The -9 category is getting small enough that it will probably go more senior than the 88 here shortly.
05-09-2010, 05:52 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Even then it might not be possible. This is a binding arbitration award. I think only the arbitrator could change it.
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
05-09-2010, 06:43 AM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,945
Even then it might not be possible. This is a binding arbitration award. I think only the arbitrator could change it.
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
To add to this I have heard that the company will not make a major wide body purchase until the fence is gone. The fence actually contributed to saving the 747-400. Absent the fence it may well have been gone by the end of next year and replaced with 777-300's. The company realized that they faced a nightmare situation if they attempted that. They would have two different 777 categories at the company and never the two could cross. Have a mechanical on a 777 in NRT and want to move another to that flight. Nope, ones a FDAL and one is a replacement FNWA. Need to reroute a copilot in NRT to replace a sick crewmember. Nope wrong sides of the fence. Need a shortcall reserve to cover a China flight from DTW, Oops out of short calls on that side of the fence. So sad flight canceled. The problems with this situation go on and on hence the extension of the 747's for exactly 5 years. Look for them to go fast at that point and a bunch of 777's to show up.
This does not sound right for a bunch of reasons:
First off - The situation you describe only applies if the 777 is a replacement for the 787 or 747. New 777s would not activate "dual Lists."
Second - You are forgetting about DALPAs policy of "Fly now - grieve later." Even if what you say is true -When scheduling calls - we are suppossed to go. The mechanical in NRT would be flown and the Union would grieve it later.
Third - The company seems to find a way around our contract when ever they really want to. If DAL is saying the fences are affecting aircraft orders, I would bet its only because that is exactly what DAL wants us to think.
Besides - At the rate the 787 is going its looking like an academic argument after all. If current trends continue (sliding timelines) It looks like the fences will come down before the 787 begins revenue service.
Finally, not intending to bid either aircraft I could give a crap who flies the 777/747, its all good as far as I am concerned.
Bring em on - the more the merrier!Scoop
05-09-2010, 06:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Wouldn't it all depend on how the acquisition of the 777s was announced? "We are proud to announce that in compensation for Boeing screwing up the 787 we are buying 10 777s" would invoke that paragraph, while "we are proud to announce an additional 10 777s will be delivered to Delta" would not. Or would the grievance police sue anyway?
Hypothetical of course, as I believe the 787 wont see a widget till after the fence comes down.
Hypothetical of course, as I believe the 787 wont see a widget till after the fence comes down.
05-09-2010, 07:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Happy Mother's Day to all Delta Mothers.
05-09-2010, 07:19 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
I heard the same thing scoop and it came from somewhere other than APC. It was specifically stated that the company was sure if they parked the 747's then got more 777's that were flying the routes the 747 had been flying that they would be considered replacement aircraft and be subject to the fences. The specific I heard was the DTW base because they would need two categories, one with non-replacement 777's flown by fDAL and another with the replacements flown by fNWA. They figured it would be cheaper to keep the 747's until the fences fall down.
05-09-2010, 07:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 138
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