acl65pilot

PG;

To save space I will not Quote you post.

1) I agree that it is not our job to determine the profit/loss of a company.

2) I take it our initial proposal will be our expectation. I like that. I would like to expect what we propose.

3) I have stated about the same thing without putting a dollar amount to it. I agree that a quick section six if possible, that meets our expectations with either triggers for bumps ups in the pay based on revenue, and or a shorter duration is the way to go. I would also like to see a percentage of the revenue from each of the existing JV's revenue paid to their group each year. Point is that I want to think outside of the box on pay generation for this group.

One more question. Do you think it would be advantageous for us to have something besides a uniform percentage bumps at the DOS dates. Something like X percentage for the initial that a 5% or COLA, then 7%, then a 9% plus a DC bump? How about a COLA or 4% bump after the amendable date?

*Just using those numbers for representative purposes.

acl65pilot

Ha, but they want the airlines to further regulate the "distractions" in the cockpit.

I saw this a few days ago, and I beleive that the external pressures that will and are being exerted will force the White House to adopt Babbit's proposals.

DAL 88 Driver

Here's a radical idea. Why not just pay us while we're at work, like every other hourly worker in the U.S.? The clock starts when we report for our first flight of the day (one hour prior to departure) and it stops when we finish duty for the day. They could leave the pay rates where they are.

acl65pilot

88; Be careful what you wish for. It sounds like a great idea until you are doing 28 hr four day trips. There would have to be a ton of protections and trip construction requirements built in to 23 for that to be livable.

tsquare

Not sure what you are driving at here, but 28 hours over 4 days would be 7 hr/day... I could live with that..

Superdad

We definitely got duped years ago into the "flight hourly rate" idea. I would love to see a shift back to an hourly rate for every hour we are at work. With some protections of course.............

scambo1

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Until you are in a category where almost every hour you are at work is hard flight time. I haven't spent enough or maybe any time thinking about various pay models different from our current pay per flight hour model. However, within the context of our current model, there is room for improvement.

I remember truly HATING productivity breaks, you just lose your edge - there has got to be a better way. Distributed training pay, vacation, training, etc. could all go up.

I really like ACLs idea of COLAs (hopefully not tied to the cpi, but to something that measures real COL). Plus up in DC. Time value of money says a quicker section six is better than a protracted one. Per diem that matches the federal gov't"s. etc

forgot to bid

From now on I'm going to post links and not articles and provide summaries. However, this one was too good to cut short:

Delta Says 1960s JFK Terminal Offers ‘Third World’ Conditions
April 26, 2010, 3:18 PM EDT
More From Businessweek

April 26 (Bloomberg) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. must upgrade its 1960s-era terminal at New York’s Kennedy airport to win more higher-fare international business travelers, an executive said.

Delta is working to compete for New York corporate fliers with American Airlines, United Airlines and Continental Airlines Inc., Treasurer Paul Jacobson said today. Kennedy’s Terminal 3 is known for its saucer-shaped roof and was dubbed Worldport.

“Customers equate that to a third-world country, and I think they’re right,” Jacobson said today at a conference in New York hosted by Airfinance Journal. “We’ve got to improve facilities at JFK.”

Delta has considered razing Terminal 3 and building a new one. The airline’s investments at John F. Kennedy International Airport total more than $70 million over the past four years, and talks continue on a “long-term facility solution” with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, said Leslie Parker, a Delta spokeswoman.

The agency is working with many airlines to overhaul facilities, according to Aviation Director Susan Baer. “We are in discussions with Delta, and we share their view that their customers deserve better,” Baer said through a spokesman.

Jacobson said Atlanta-based Delta is “aggressively targeting” corporate travelers by installing more lie-flat seats on international wide-body jets and adding new routes. Spending on fleet improvements will be $1 billion over the next three years, Delta has said.

AMR Corp.’s American, UAL Corp.’s United and Continental have been “dominant in the corporate travel market a long time and have built up a lot of loyalty” in New York, Jacobson said.

Delta is also trying to build New York’s LaGuardia airport into a hub for domestic flights through a proposed swap of takeoff and landing slots with US Airways Group Inc.

Under the plan, which is being reviewed by the U.S. Transportation Department, Delta wants to acquire 110 slot pairs at LaGuardia from US Airways, in exchange for 37 of its pairs at Washington’s Reagan National airport.

forgot to bid

Merge, fail, merge, fail, repeat often
Houston Chronicle
April 24, 2010, 12:52AM

Steffy: Airline mantra is merge, fail, repeat | Business: Loren Steffy | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Einstein once defined insanity as “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Einstein may have been a genius, but he never worked in the airline business.

Of the dozens of airline mergers since deregulation, only a couple have been considered successful. Airline executives, of course, know this. So why do they keep discussing mergers as if they expect different results?

FTB quick edit:
Airlines merge because they have few options; union, management and operational cost cutting to no avail; shrinking routes shrinks profitability as revenue falls faster than costs; if you can't shrink then grow; mergers have terrible track record because failed integration;

Right now, industry executives are looking at Delta Air Lines' acquisition of Northwest in late 2008. Largely considered a success because it had union support, the market has cheered the deal. The carrier's market value is more than $9.7 billion, surpassing United, Continental and US Airways combined; “I do believe we have a little market cap envy going on between the rest of the industry and Delta,” said William Swelbar, with the International Center for Air Transportation at MIT"; “The market has embraced Delta-Northwest. I think we have some CEOs looking at this and saying, ‘This is about my ability to raise capital.' ”;

It's also about responsibility to shareholders. Airlines have done so little for investors in recent years that executives have to consider premiums that might come with a buyout offer; two problems persist the airline industry is confounded by two persistent problems: a fragmented market and too many empty seats; no single airline in the world controls more than 5 percent of the market; abundance of seats has kept fares low, but it's also left carriers vulnerable to surges in fuel prices;

It's no coincidence that United and Continental have come back to the table as fuel prices increase; Once oil gets above about $90 a barrel, a deal becomes more difficult; Much of the merger talk... aimed at consolidating that capacity without incurring additional costs; Mergers, though, don't necessarily reduce capacity. To win antitrust approval, the carriers need little overlap on routes; airlines still losing money in 2009 despite U.S. airline capacity falling the most that it has since World War II;

CAL has to decide to merge, go bigger or do nothing and hopen UAL merges with someone else to cut capacity; MIT analyst says "we've done all this work [on industry structure], and everything is so fragile".

Pineapple Guy

Why should a 12th year 777 F/O pilot make $2,002 (14 hr @ $143/hr) in a single day for a 14hr flight to Narita, when he's sleeping for 6 of those hours and never touches the controls the other 8; but a 12th year DC9 F/O only makes $1,545 (15 hr at $103/hr) for working 30 hours over 3 days with 15 landings, and no paid naps?

I'm just sayin....