reddog25

Thanks for the correctiuon. Had my time line off. Point was pattern bargaining works, and it worked because one airline (NWA) had the gonads to go on strike in 1998.

If you aren't willing to pull the trigger, the bar will never be moved upwards. Keep that in mind as we approach 2012

johnso29

My CA and I were on this topic the other day. We both feel that the industry's safety record has and continues to hurt our income. Our industry has become so safe that the average passenger has become numb to the fact that they are in a thin metal tube at dangerous altitudes going 500+ MPH. Perhaps if this industry had 3-6 fatal accidents per year we would be paid more?

johnso29

Agreed. I believe the average middle class family makes around 50K. They won't feel sympathy at all.

acl65pilot

Johnso, that is and was my point. The ones that know what we are worth are us and the ones we negotiate against. They want us to agree to less than what that number is, and that is logical and we want to get paid more than we are worth. In the end becomes what our worth is.

I would love to march in Parades like the unionists in NYC do, handing out pies to the parade goers, but in our industry the paying public just does not care. 150K for a job not matter what the requirements for entry or to stay in it means little to someone who makes 50K, 100k, 150K, or a million a year. They vote or shop with their dollars. It comes down to capacity and now much we can logically charge for a ticket.

Pattern barging elevates the costs in any industry. It keeps the players in line. Yes, showing the will to strike or striking may get the ball rolling. A resolve of 12200 pilots does that too. Capacity constraint is good for all. More people want to fly with a finite product and a logical increase of that good ensues. Flooding the market with seats from debt burdened companies forces everyone's hand. Why? They need cash flow to pay the mortgage payment.

We have a given a very strong investment in this company. We want a return on that. We expect our Leaders to lead so that gains by labor and management are sustainable. To do that, we need to keep doing what we are doing and holding our leaders accountable. That is the best way to regain what we have lost. The traveling public will adapt if they want the product.

(On a side note, for far to long the air travel to Disney, HI et al was where the discounts were made to let Joe Public and his family take that dream vacation. Hotels etc did not suffer, we did. It is time to change that)

flyallnite

...Are Back!

...slow clap Delta, slow freakin clap...

slowplay

While your strike was an honorable one, it in my view wasn't the key factor in other airlines achieving pattern gains. The airlines were generating huge free cash from 1996-2000. When there's more pie, there's more for everyone.

Please show me an example of a "successful" post deregulation strike against an employer with poor free cash flow. All the strikes that I've researched that "worked" (NWA ALPA, IPA sympathy, Amerijet et. al.) were against companies that were making money. Some other strikes against companies making money only rearranged the deck chairs of the pre-strike offer on the table or not making enough gains above that offer to pay for the time spent out(CMR), so both management and the union "lost".

Strike is a tool, not a strategy. It should be entered into with methodical thought, not just gonads.

johnso29

And here we are stacking away cash and paying down debt, yet we are still losing money. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Not disputing your point slow. I understand what you're saying. Just pointing out how tricky bean counters are.

gearsdown

Woa! Who's gonna volunteer to be the first crew fatality? Anyone?

I like saying that the most dangerous part of my job is driving to work.

johnso29

I knew someone would say it!!!

SFWB

Today I am headed to Mecca for indoc. It is my first trip there. This is my first post here. Trend?