Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-21-2010, 08:08 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
There is one little problem with that theory...Legally speaking, there is only one "ALPA". Legally speaking, we both belong to the SAME union. This would work with American and Eagle, because they are different unions. That won't work with ALPA anymore. Either we work TOGETHER on scope, or there will be legal issues.
04-21-2010, 08:17 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
RAH Scope Clause
You know people laugh at the Teamsters and get mad at RAH for a lot of things, but I have to say their section 1 is pretty good:
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
E. Foreign Bases
Ours is over 4,000 words.
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
E. Foreign Bases
Ours is over 4,000 words.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 04-21-2010 at 08:28 PM.
04-21-2010, 08:20 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
the wife is at T+3 for #2 so any minute now....
ACL if you don't make nice I'll post the picture of jack black in Dj Lance Rocks outfit...
Cheers
George
ACL if you don't make nice I'll post the picture of jack black in Dj Lance Rocks outfit...
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 04-21-2010 at 08:22 PM. Reason: speeeling
04-21-2010, 08:22 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
You know people laugh at the Teamsters and get mad at RAH for a lot of things, but I have to say their section 1 is pretty good:
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
E. Foreign Bases
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
E. Foreign Bases
04-21-2010, 08:25 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
There is one little problem with that theory...Legally speaking, there is only one "ALPA". Legally speaking, we both belong to the SAME union. This would work with American and Eagle, because they are different unions. That won't work with ALPA anymore. Either we work TOGETHER on scope, or there will be legal issues.
04-21-2010, 08:27 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Thats right and ironically it was what everyone outside of RAH was yelling at them for in 2002 or 03 when they got that contract because they didn't get a big enough pay raise but they got that scope and prevented a GoJet issue.
04-21-2010, 08:38 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
BTW Joe, let me ask you this.
The ATR 42-600 and 72-600 are on the way with better performance, upgraded cockpits and better engines and I think like at least 55% fuel savings if not greater between the 72 and CRJ700.
Why don't we see more regionals, i.e. ASA, going for the Q400 and ATR? Seems to be clear DAL will park 50 seaters as their leases come up, why not get in the TP business again and beat the other DCIs to it and secure more flying, especially if oil decides to climb, for the pilot group? Kind of like Colgan is doing in EWR.
Would pilots trade a CRJ-200 for an ATR 42-500 or -600 right now?
The ATR 42-600 and 72-600 are on the way with better performance, upgraded cockpits and better engines and I think like at least 55% fuel savings if not greater between the 72 and CRJ700.
Why don't we see more regionals, i.e. ASA, going for the Q400 and ATR? Seems to be clear DAL will park 50 seaters as their leases come up, why not get in the TP business again and beat the other DCIs to it and secure more flying, especially if oil decides to climb, for the pilot group? Kind of like Colgan is doing in EWR.
Would pilots trade a CRJ-200 for an ATR 42-500 or -600 right now?
04-21-2010, 08:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
I always thought "ALLIANCES" were a "fancy" way of "outsourcing and scope-dodging"..
TYG
04-21-2010, 08:46 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
How much would it cost to swap Chautauqua with Delta, Teamsters with DALPA and change the words all present and future flying to say all future flying as of January 1, 2010?
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
E. Foreign Bases
1. May only be in Sao Paulo, Rio De Whatever and Prague...
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
E. Foreign Bases
1. May only be in Sao Paulo, Rio De Whatever and Prague...
04-21-2010, 08:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 354
If I remember..it auto shuts down on the ground for everything..right?
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