Waves

The "steam" post was referring to the heated discussions by others that I may have unintentionally (OK intentionally) started. Ooopsy

P.S. Because of you guys, I'm going to have to file a tax extension. LOL

maddogmax

If your argument is that picking up trips over 80 hrs at 1.5X pay would cause displacements/downgrades then doesn't doing GS flying do the same thing? If that is your concern, then nobody should ever fly over their ALV.

forgot to bid

Scoop, like I said in my post and having talked to the folks at the merger committee they did use real numbers to determine which was a better system and it was a wash in actual money paid out from the company to the pilots. The issue became how it was spread out among the pilots. But I am paraphrasing.

The one thing about GS's that will pull your hair out and thats just trying to determine what your monthly pay is to date as you progress through a month where you've earned GS's or having a rolling fart or a real rolling thunder going on. Credit is absolutely confusing imo.

It'd be nice if you could click on a trip in open time on icrew and say "WS" "GS" "YS" instead of writing it down on a piece of paper and inserting it into PCS. Same with figuring out your pay sometimes, you need a pencil and a copy of the contract in hand.

Its tantamount to having to write down trip numbers on a piece of paper so you can insert them into your white slip, you should be able to see "Your Pay in Hours to date is: 34" and

forgot to bid

fwiw, what I wrote was not intended for you but for us all.

And fwiw, you can't file us as a tax deduction.

Waves

Thanks T, remember when GS's were just awarded by seniority only? That was fantastic when I was #3 on the aircraft, but when I moved to a different seat it sucked. Ha They didn't spread the wealth at all. It was always just a handful of guys at the top who were just making a killing. No kidding, I remember a Captain years ago before the big pay raise we got, and he made almost $500K when most Captains were making less than $200K. I still beleive seniority should have its priveleges, but there should certainly be a limit to this. I don't have tany answers to which method is best, but I would certainly be up for 1.5X for any overtime flying and 2X for holidays. I guess my sticking point is what is overtime? I think it would have to be no more than 78 hours. Just my thoughts.

slowplay

So what business is it of DALFA's to make remarks by name of the MEC Chair?

None. I note that you didn't respond to DALFA. Fair and balanced....

Waves

Man, now ya tell me. LOL Crap, now I owe money.

Funny story: When I was a 727 SO, one of the FO's was talking about how he deducted this, and that, and this, and that. The Captain and I were quite surprised at some of the stuff he was deducting and queried him about them. His response was, " Hey, that's what I'm sending in. It's my first offer, if they don't like it, they can just let me know."

Lifeisgood

Good point. The more we [are willing to] work the less of us they need. We got to be careful or we can end up like CAL with 87 hour lines.
Lets work on other rules and rates instead.

forgot to bid

Before 2008 the world was a different ball game. We need to keep that in mind because this is a new world where pre 2001, pre 2005, pre 2008 are gone and nobody will be throwing us a pity party but us.

And, outside of the 982 guys from both sides that were living within 180 miles of the other sides base, I don't know any other pilot in their right mind that would've said in the fall of 2007 "gosh I think I'd like to see us merge with somebody!"

But keep this mind, the powers that be saw that a Delta and Northwest merger was necessary for survival and strength- and imho they were right. The only problem was for DALS is that NWA didn’t have UALs or AMRs base choices and frankly, vice-versa.

Think about everything that happened between 2008 and 2010 and tell me where we would’ve found the money and credit to double our fleet (221% increase for DALN and 183% for DALS), launch majorly into new world theatres and simultaneously pay down debt, beef up the airline (outside of CVG) and save $600M in annual cost?

Look at the competition and you'll see them contemplating starting what we started 2 years ago and they’ve got a lot of roadblocks ahead of them.

We're better off together then alone imho and our two airlines were the best merger option. As T said, its done now. This forum has a way of showing us that not everyone on either side is a homo... homogeneous group. I think honestly, given that we're all operating under the same pwa, DALN and DALS commuters will find a lot in common, DALN and DALS newhires will find a lot in common, old farts will find something in common, regional pilots will find someone else who shares their background and also never buys a round , LCA will find something in common, those who think supposed Boeing books suck will find things in common, those who hate 23K will find new friends, USAF 20 year guys will find new USAF guys, those who are just haters will find new friends, those have been hypnotized by McDonnell Douglas products will have stuff in common, former Navy pilots who are lucky to still be alive will find others who feel the same, the South America lovers- love on with your new friends, those who like Saipan honkey tonks- you're in luck, and so on.

RockyBoy

I agree with your math and I'm not going to argue that it "may" cost pilot jobs, but so does putting in a GS. How many hours over 80 has PBS built into lines for pilots this year. I've had 5 months with over 80 hour lines in the past 12 months. If we had premium pay for that, maybe they would stop with the high ALV's and hire more guys. So I'm not sure it would actually cost any jobs to do it the other way. I've worked under both type systems and the premium pay over a certain credit is way more direct, to the point, and easy to understand, than figuring out how the GS system works. The reason I said the system was stupid (maybe I should have said inferior) is the because:

1. It is really only an option that works for local guys who can make it to the airport fairly quickly.

2. Most GS trips go to guys in the top 50% of the list.

3. You are putting yourself on reserve.

4. You can't see who else has in a GS to see if you need to put yourself on reserve and wait around for the phone to ring with your bags packed.

5. The company will DH someone from China to get around giving out a GS trip.

It's just my opinion that we would be better off as a group with the old NWA way. I know that is heresy here, but that's what I think as an old DAL-S guy.