Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-08-2010, 10:20 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
04-08-2010, 10:32 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
This was NOT a Delta flight, but given that this stuff just keeps happening at the "vendors" you'd think it would be relevant to our outsourcing discussions.
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation...022/439435.pdf
IMHO, airlines should stop assuming "Safety is a given"
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation...022/439435.pdf
IMHO, airlines should stop assuming "Safety is a given"
16:08:44
HOT-1
flaps twenty. taxis.16:09:02
HOT-2
takeoff data forty four thousand pounds. flaps eight twenty seven twenty
eight thirty four seventy three eighty seven point eight set.
16:09:08
eight thirty four seventy three eighty seven point eight set.
16:09:08
HOT-1
set.
16:09:08
16:09:08
HOT-2
flaps trims eight degrees green. seven point six.
16:09:12
16:09:12
HOT-1
eight green seven point six.
Well that might be your problem right there....
04-08-2010, 10:36 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
And what point do you stop aiding the company for cutting corners elsewhere to rely on your professionalism? I'm all for doing the best job I can, not making up for the deliberate failure to perform of others.
By our very nature that is what we do and how we are wired.
I do not know at what point you stop, I guess it depends on the environment.
ACL,
You are right - we are wired that way but we have to fight it. I ruined a shirt trying to correct a totally jacked up air conditioning hose. I know better and should have just started the APU - I am now through with that. If the company hires personnel and does not train them properly or they don't care because they make $9/hour and plan on quitting at the next major holiday that is not my problem.
Scoop
Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
And what point do you stop aiding the company for cutting corners elsewhere to rely on your professionalism? I'm all for doing the best job I can, not making up for the deliberate failure to perform of others.
By our very nature that is what we do and how we are wired.
I do not know at what point you stop, I guess it depends on the environment.
ACL,
You are right - we are wired that way but we have to fight it. I ruined a shirt trying to correct a totally jacked up air conditioning hose. I know better and should have just started the APU - I am now through with that. If the company hires personnel and does not train them properly or they don't care because they make $9/hour and plan on quitting at the next major holiday that is not my problem.
Scoop
04-08-2010, 10:37 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
04-08-2010, 10:41 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I will self edit my own commentary.
04-08-2010, 10:44 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I thought two negatives made a positive!
I liked this quote, from the Washington Post. (Swelbar is a consultant)
Swelbar questioned whether United and US Airways pilots had laid any of the necessary groundwork. "Whereas Delta was blessed with visionary pilot leadership, the same type of leadership is not evident at either US Airways or United," he said.
washingtonpost.com
I liked this quote, from the Washington Post. (Swelbar is a consultant)
Swelbar questioned whether United and US Airways pilots had laid any of the necessary groundwork. "Whereas Delta was blessed with visionary pilot leadership, the same type of leadership is not evident at either US Airways or United," he said.
washingtonpost.com
04-08-2010, 11:03 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,902
ACL,
You are right - we are wired that way but we have to fight it. I ruined a shirt trying to correct a totally jacked up air conditioning hose. I know better and should have just started the APU - I am now through with that. If the company hires personnel and does not train them properly or they don't care because they make $9/hour and plan on quitting at the next major holiday that is not my problem.
Scoop
You are right - we are wired that way but we have to fight it. I ruined a shirt trying to correct a totally jacked up air conditioning hose. I know better and should have just started the APU - I am now through with that. If the company hires personnel and does not train them properly or they don't care because they make $9/hour and plan on quitting at the next major holiday that is not my problem.
Scoop
I have been told that there may be OJI implications if you get hurt doing a job that is not in your direct work description.
In other words, if you fall down the jetway steps because it repositions while you're carrying two strollers or if the A/C duct breaks your arm because it takes off like a fire hose while you were fiddling with it, at some point SOMEONE is going to ask "why were you doing that?"
I'm not sure that this interpretation is correct, just what was passed along to me...but I have heard that the company looks at ALL OJI events very carefully.
IANAL, YMMV....
Nu
04-08-2010, 11:28 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Nu;
Correct, that is why unless it is your bag do not lift it. As for the air hoses, radio seems to work real well for that, and if not there is always that little ole APU switch.
Correct, that is why unless it is your bag do not lift it. As for the air hoses, radio seems to work real well for that, and if not there is always that little ole APU switch.
04-08-2010, 11:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
16:08:44
HOT-1
flaps twenty. taxis.
16:09:02
HOT-2
takeoff data forty four thousand pounds. flaps eight twenty seven twenty
eight thirty four seventy three eighty seven point eight set.
16:09:08
HOT-1
set.
16:09:08
HOT-2
flaps trims eight degrees green. seven point six.
16:09:12
HOT-1
eight green seven point six.
Eerily similar to this...
Seven minutes and 42 seconds of nonpertinent conversations, beginning at
0839:42, were edited from the transcript. These conversations consisted of casual, nonduty related topics among the flightcrew and included a
conversation with a flight attendant who was in the cockpit on two occasions during the ground operation. The transcript starts again at 0847:28, just as the flight changed from the DFW east ground controller to the west ground controller. At 0848:14, 1 minute and 18 seconds and again at 0850:01, 1 minute and 22 seconds of the transcript were edited. These conversations consisted of casual, nonduty related topics. At 0853:12, the transcript starts again and continues unedited until the end of the recording.
The flight started monitoring local control, i.e., the control tower, frequency at 0857:22. The flight attendant left the cockpit and the
door was closed at 0857:35 after the second officer called for the flight
attendants to prepare the airplane for departure. The No. 3 engine was
restarted at 0857:42 and the last part of the taxi checklist was
accomplished. During this portion of the taxi checklist, in response to the
second officer's prompt of "FLAPS", the first officer stated "FIFTEEN,
FIFTEEN, GREEN LIGHT." The flight was cleared onto the runway at 0858:38 and was cleared for takeoff at 0859:17.
We should all be very familiar with this transcript. Unnecessary conversation leading to the flaps not in the proper takeoff position. Keep our heads in the game, folks. Complacency is probably our number one enemy in the cockpit.
HOT-1
flaps twenty. taxis.
16:09:02
HOT-2
takeoff data forty four thousand pounds. flaps eight twenty seven twenty
eight thirty four seventy three eighty seven point eight set.
16:09:08
HOT-1
set.
16:09:08
HOT-2
flaps trims eight degrees green. seven point six.
16:09:12
HOT-1
eight green seven point six.
Eerily similar to this...
Seven minutes and 42 seconds of nonpertinent conversations, beginning at
0839:42, were edited from the transcript. These conversations consisted of casual, nonduty related topics among the flightcrew and included a
conversation with a flight attendant who was in the cockpit on two occasions during the ground operation. The transcript starts again at 0847:28, just as the flight changed from the DFW east ground controller to the west ground controller. At 0848:14, 1 minute and 18 seconds and again at 0850:01, 1 minute and 22 seconds of the transcript were edited. These conversations consisted of casual, nonduty related topics. At 0853:12, the transcript starts again and continues unedited until the end of the recording.
The flight started monitoring local control, i.e., the control tower, frequency at 0857:22. The flight attendant left the cockpit and the
door was closed at 0857:35 after the second officer called for the flight
attendants to prepare the airplane for departure. The No. 3 engine was
restarted at 0857:42 and the last part of the taxi checklist was
accomplished. During this portion of the taxi checklist, in response to the
second officer's prompt of "FLAPS", the first officer stated "FIFTEEN,
FIFTEEN, GREEN LIGHT." The flight was cleared onto the runway at 0858:38 and was cleared for takeoff at 0859:17.
We should all be very familiar with this transcript. Unnecessary conversation leading to the flaps not in the proper takeoff position. Keep our heads in the game, folks. Complacency is probably our number one enemy in the cockpit.
04-08-2010, 11:47 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Who's not supporting their right to organize? They definitely have a right to do so. I for one am done trying to help them make their decision. I was supportive for two elections, but have since concluded it is not in their make-up to correctly manage a union... since they often can't manage a group of eight. We can barely make ours work.
So I sit back, and let them take responsibility for their decision. Not interfering is more respectful than trying to influence anyway.
Assuming they manage to work well enough together to figure out a plan, and assuming they get a union (and I hope it's a strong enough vote, so they're not broken within months), then we should welcome that union, and work with them, to the extent our interests match.
One problem I perceive on the North side is that you think you understand what the South F/A's are, or what they need. I have been here ten years, and wouldn't make such a bold claim as to say I understand them. I think you'r pilots are driven by principles that are very valid and noble for a hypothetical group (i.e. that that we should all represent ourselves), but haven't been tested with this particular group. I for one have been absolutely mystified by what drives some of these creatures, especially those in Atlanta. Talking to (some of) them about a union is a little like talking to a chicken about a computer. Except maybe the chicken is passive when it's confused, not aggressive. My advice, therefore, is for you to give the F/A's time to work together, and figure out a plan. In the meantime, trying to presume what's good for them is rather premature, and maybe even a little insulting.
Supporting their right to organize, and organizing them ourselves, are two different matters.
So I sit back, and let them take responsibility for their decision. Not interfering is more respectful than trying to influence anyway.
Assuming they manage to work well enough together to figure out a plan, and assuming they get a union (and I hope it's a strong enough vote, so they're not broken within months), then we should welcome that union, and work with them, to the extent our interests match.
One problem I perceive on the North side is that you think you understand what the South F/A's are, or what they need. I have been here ten years, and wouldn't make such a bold claim as to say I understand them. I think you'r pilots are driven by principles that are very valid and noble for a hypothetical group (i.e. that that we should all represent ourselves), but haven't been tested with this particular group. I for one have been absolutely mystified by what drives some of these creatures, especially those in Atlanta. Talking to (some of) them about a union is a little like talking to a chicken about a computer. Except maybe the chicken is passive when it's confused, not aggressive. My advice, therefore, is for you to give the F/A's time to work together, and figure out a plan. In the meantime, trying to presume what's good for them is rather premature, and maybe even a little insulting.
Supporting their right to organize, and organizing them ourselves, are two different matters.
Just wanting to add. I think in the airline profession where you have massive amounts of people doing, by rule, the same job as everyone else and doing it decade after decade then a seniority list and a union provides significant advantages. However, a bad union can wipe every benefit of being unionized off the table.
To me unions are agents tantamount to sports agents. They are there to represent you, hire good lawyers, hire good accountants, get good doctors, make sure that contract protects you, make sure the contract talks are not so acromonious that a good team wants you booted to the Cleveland Browns. But at the heart of the matter is they work for you and your goals should be theirs and not the other way around.
If its not, don’t hire them because they will screw you over and Lord help us, they will screw everyone else over as well and probably do it in short order. Hire the right “team”, then we together will help ensure that if, or when, in the decade(s) to come a management team like a Ron Allen II or the second coming of Frank Lorenzo appears then we could fight them off quickly and effectively because Lord knows if their goal is to plunder then they won’t care about any of us, our passengers or Delta.
I won’t tell anyone to join a union because I am in a union. I’d tell them the benefits and I'd ask that they be picky. I’d tell them I’m not crazy about ALPA but I like DALPA- but I take everyone in the LEC and MEC one person at a time as I expect to be treated. I'll admit to being suspicious of the AFA and IAM, but if they sell a good product then good for the workers, but if they aren't selling a product worth buying then shame on the AFA and IAM.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 04-08-2010 at 12:13 PM.
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