acl65pilot

Here is a link to a post about EU pilot pay from 2006. Enjoy

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...ay-scales.html

DFW Refugee

Also BOS, IAH and ORD.

Waves

Thanks, I knew I was leaving some out, but I couldn't think of them.

forgot to bid

Didn't we have all those bases when Delta didn't allow jumpseaters, internal or external? Or was that never the case?

DFW Refugee

Bucking:

"Doesn't your flight kit weigh enough without emotional baggage?"

It's business and safety-related. 'They' took DALPA's support (Picketing, etc...) and our money (Strike Assessment), then gave us...especially our furloughees, a 'New York Salute'. From a professional standpoint, having a person on the jumpseat that would be a distraction and adversely affect the safe conduct of the flight, is not something I would allow. YMMV.

alfaromeo

Go back and read it again, pal. I never said anything about interest based bargaining, whatever that means. You give some tortured definition, but I doubt that is the real one. There is no real budget established and the size of the pilot contract is not dictated by management, it is determined by economic conditions and the determination of the pilot group. I clearly indicated that I was using a metaphor for real bargaining because pilots that are not experienced in this type of negotiations can have a hard time wrapping their heads around the concepts. I also clearly indicated that the process of establishing the value of the contract and the areas where the value will be used is a parallel process that takes place in one sequence. You might want to actually read what was written before you start flaming like a fool.

Do you agree that there will, at some point, be a finite value in the pilot contract or is it just infinite? If it is infinite then I want a million dollars an hour, I will work for a month and then quit. If it is finite then priorities will have to be established by the pilots and the MEC. If you want to have to have more vacation then you will have to accept less gains in other areas of the contract and so on and so on. Why do you think they have a big contract survey? To establish priorities. Duh.

I did not mention scope, not because it is not important, but as you can see, you can't say the word scope on here without starting a massive food fight. Also, scope is not viewed as a quantifiable item per se, and I can't remember anytime "bargaining credits" were obtained through scope at Delta. Even in Chapter 11 we protected the vast majority of our scope language. Remember, that scope language is what saved us from the US Air takeover and saved about 1500 jobs of our most junior pilots. Quantify that, bub.

Waves

Yes that is correct; however, I don't believe any of the base closures had any correlation with the jump seat issue. DAL management used the jumpseat issue as another high cost bargaining chip. As I have been saying all along. Every single thing we negotiate, or have negotiated in the past has been assigned a value. The jump seat issue cost us big time, but was definitely a must have item. The "No Furlough Clause" was also expensive but necessary.

P.S. Tangent not directed at forgot to bid: Many years ago, I was traveling through DEN and needed to JS on UAL Express. I was denied the request twice and finally had to buy an expensive last minute ticket to get where I was going. The Captain said, "If we can't ride on Delta, then you can't ride on us." It sucked and I was ticked, but he did have a point. It was futile to explain to him that management wouldn't give us the jumpseat. The bottom line was that we hadn't paid management enough to get it. Somewhere in that "bag o money" was the jumpseat, but we had not sacrificed enough in other areas to BUY the jumpseat privelege. From some of the responses I have received, I know that there are several people here that still do not understand or perhaps believe in "dollar store negotiations." Again I will emphasi: Every single item we negotiate has an assigned value. It can be a positive value or a negative value, but it has a value, real and perceived. Example: A "No Furlough Clause" is not free. A "Scope Clause" is not free. Medical Benefits are not free. OK, I'll stop, you guys get the point. Additionally, remember my "Money Bag" theory. It is a finite amount due to economics, and the bag's capacity is really only known to management. It is incumbent upon us to use the bag as a piñata, to discover it's contents, and to use the contents to our advantage.

Waves

As I mentioned earlier, the only reason I allow CA guys on the jumpseat is because I know some of our guys need to ride with them sometimes. I didn't want to start a war and punish the wrong guys. If it weren't for that, they would not be allowed on my jumpseat.

Also as I mentioned before, not only did they use our guys as bargaining chips, but when they went on strike, they falsely accused us of flying their work. That ticked me off even further. So any of the touchy feely guys (not you) who want to forgive them can, but I ain't one of them.

Maddog Waddle

Anyone in the know want to comment on validity of following I heard on my last trip:

1. Goal of DAL is in the neighborhood of 50 777s by 2016

2. 10 more 747-4s coming in next year and a half due to 787 delay..there were other aircraft in this payment for delay but i don't remember the exact numbers

3. One of our DCI carriers, out of the 13 million outstanding DCI carriers, will be opening a DFW base to feed increase in flying out of there. AF may bring back the international flight out of there too and (drumroll)....Delta to ASIA out of DFW? maybe done via DFW to LAX or SEA though.

4. Hiring 400 to start in the fall.

5. Delta has made their order for the 100 seater.

acl65pilot

Some good stuff in there

1) I am sure we will get more 777's

2) Maybe. A fleet of 25 is the ideal fleet for marketing to optimize profit on the 744

3) Might be linked to the Freedom settlement. I know they were looking at adding them out there. The rest of it was tied to JAL. I see increased DFW flying in a big way, but I think they have opted out of a mainline base for the near future.

4) Flows and recalls first. Aug to early 2011. Oil price will determine when.

5) Maybe maybe not, some call it the MD-90.

I could post more, but that is good enough for now.