Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
![RockyBoy is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/clear.gif)
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
So, please, do the readers of this thread a favor, and forgo the declarative statement that only leads to what amounts to a school yard fight of "it is too!" versus "Not-uhh!"
Last edited by GunshipGuy; 04-05-2010 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Added "is" which as we all know can really change the meaning of a sentence depending on what the definition of "is" is.
![GunshipGuy is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
![Wink](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon12.gif)
I think his idea of work rules and work ethic, as a negotiating position, is far superior to running to the company with my tail in the air like a cat in heat.
Everything is negotiable. I for one, prefer to bargain from strength, real or perceived, than depend on the goodness of the company's heart for my paycheck.
Nu
Everything is negotiable. I for one, prefer to bargain from strength, real or perceived, than depend on the goodness of the company's heart for my paycheck.
Nu
The first step is to determine the total budget allocated to the Delta pilot contract. One reason that I keep trying to get people to quit this endless political jockeying is that pilot unity is the only leverage that any negotiating committee has to wield at the table. That is why when I see people trying to whip up disunity in favor of their short term political power grabs, it makes me sick. Every time these stunts occur, it only takes power away from the negotiators and the MEC.
So, we now determine the total budget for the pilots. Management wants a small budget and we want a large budget. The size of that budget will be determined by several factors:
Competitive contracts throughout the industry (pattern bargaining)
Profitability of the company (yes it really matters, no matter how much anyone tries to delude themselves)
Pilot unity and organization
Despite the webboard wisdom, the size of the budget will not be affected by:
The size of the testicles of the MEC
Voting no, saying no, thinking no, being tough, toughness, courage, etc.
This is a business transaction, that is how the company views it, that is how the NMB views it and if you want to play in the universe of emotional outbursts (see APA) then you WILL get your clock cleaned. Badly.
So now we have gauged the economic environment and we have determined the pilot budget. Again, we try to make it as large as possible but in the end it will be a FIXED NUMBER. That is just reality. You can't just vote no and then have that number go higher. In fact in the last few years, everyone that has voted no has had to eat a smaller number in the end. The conventional wisdom of vote no and it gets better is almost always proven to be 180 out of the reality of the situation. As long as both sides make rational business evaluations of the negotiating environment, then the budget is actually bracketed into a very narrow range from the minute you start negotiations. That is also a fact that cannot be abridged by emotional arguments.
Now we have the budget. How are we going to spend that budget? During the last few years the Delta MEC has had less money in their budget, like everyone else. Having your company go bankrupt does that sort of thing. Facing this budget cutback, they decided to spend their budget this way:
Preserve work rules and the 12-14 day work month
1 for 3.5 was critical
ALV midrange was 77 which equates to a very reasonable initial load on schedules
Vacation should still be vacation and not a cash cow to sell back
The reserve system was not designed to be "commutable" so it is not a failure that the system is not commutable
Eliminate paid time for pilots sitting at home
This is where the 23K came from
The reserve system is specifically designed to minimize reserve guarantee paid - if you hit 67 hours each month then the system is doing what it was designed to do
Keep pay rates high
That is the traditional #1 goal for Delta pilots and unless things have changed a lot recently, it still is
Leverage equity from the company to provide compensation that does not come out of the P+L statement
Our bankruptcy claim netted Delta pilots $1.2 billion
The merger equity is probably now worth about $50K + per pilot
Frankly, we accomplished all of those goals and ended up with the best contract of all the Ch 11 carriers. (sorry north guys, but it was about $100 mm per year to bring you guys up to our contract, that is just a fact). Those priorities have set us up to continue to rebuild our contract like no other carrier has over the last three years. You can admire the bluster of UAL or AMR pilots but they have produced a goose egg over the last few years. At some points results have to matter.
Our next contract should contain a higher budget for Delta pilots. Inside of that budget the pilots through the MEC will decide how to spend that budget. If 23K recovery is too onerous, then they can spend money to let first officers sit at home with full pay. If commuters want reserve to be "commutable" then the MEC can spend money on that. If pilots want to let senior pilots on reserve sit at home and pass the pain on down the line, then they can spend money on that. If pilots want to move their pay rates higher then they can retain the productivity improvements of the last few years and put more money in pay.
There are no right or wrong answers here, there is just each pilots opinions of where the budget should be spent. It is not weakness to want higher pay rates and it is not stupid to want more time off. These are just individual preferences. You can call each other names all you want, but in the end, the pilots will express their preferences through the MEC and the MEC will develop a consensus on how to spend that budget.
If you can first get your head around the concept that the budget will be a fixed amount, then you can concentrate on deciding your priorities on how to spend that budget and avoid the emotional name calling that so often accompanies these discussions. Or, you can call each other names which is always very productive. By the way, you all stink.
![Smile](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![alfaromeo is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: B737NG-B
Posts: 203
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Assuming they built commutable 5-day trips. You're still working more days and away from home more. Essentially, you're getting paid less per hour.
It all depends on what you value most ... paying $50 for a stupid hotel room and having an extra day with your family, or getting that hotel for free. Its up to you.
It all depends on what you value most ... paying $50 for a stupid hotel room and having an extra day with your family, or getting that hotel for free. Its up to you.
![Howgozit is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Welcome back, Brer New.
All this "flying" and "working" stuff is keeping me off of the forums more... I guess all those evil commuters are calling in sick. Not going to be much Clamp show action in May either... the sadistic schedulers apparently know my normal body clock and gave me all but 2 A-period sims for my fluf training. What... on.... earth?!?
Keeping with the thread: Can we keep KC10 and PG as far far away from a union position as possible? Please?
![Smile](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
All this "flying" and "working" stuff is keeping me off of the forums more... I guess all those evil commuters are calling in sick. Not going to be much Clamp show action in May either... the sadistic schedulers apparently know my normal body clock and gave me all but 2 A-period sims for my fluf training. What... on.... earth?!?
Keeping with the thread: Can we keep KC10 and PG as far far away from a union position as possible? Please?
![Smile](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![newKnow is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Haven't heard that one, but I did hear that Guam is currently off the radar. I am wondering though, why there is a category for ATL 330 and NYC 330 on the trip length report (at beginning of each bid package)????? Also have a 767 category for DTW, MSP, LAX, and NYC (could it be that having everyone in the international 7ER might just be too much of a logistical problem with theater quals)?????.
![acl65pilot is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I shall now bow to the cone of shame...
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![slowplay is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![Superpilot92 is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
On second thought, maybe not.
![Confused](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/confused.gif)
Yeah, right. I can hear Ferd and Carl laughing right now.....
![newKnow is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I disagree - the FAA has to get a cost benefit for everything they do. If the FAA starts requiring everyone to come in the night before - the first thing the pilot unions will require is the company to provide the hotel for them - because "it's FAA required". (even if not a commuter - who is to say a 2 hr drive through ATL traffic from the north side is relaxing)
This would be a dramatic cost - one the airlines will fight tooth and nail (but do it behind the scenes).
This would be a dramatic cost - one the airlines will fight tooth and nail (but do it behind the scenes).
![DAL73n is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post