Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-05-2010, 06:52 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 217
GNewt,
Since your base is closing, I think that you should sell your house to PG. Then, you should displace into his base/position. If enough guys do that to push him out, maybe, just maybe, he might re-think his position on commuting.
You are clearly losing the argument on 5 day trips. Apparently, some think that it will be better to fly 3 or 4 day trips...and pay for a hotel on either/both ends.
Since your base is closing, I think that you should sell your house to PG. Then, you should displace into his base/position. If enough guys do that to push him out, maybe, just maybe, he might re-think his position on commuting.
You are clearly losing the argument on 5 day trips. Apparently, some think that it will be better to fly 3 or 4 day trips...and pay for a hotel on either/both ends.
04-05-2010, 06:53 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,167
I don't have Stockholm Syndrome. I'm all for getting what we can in contract from the company. But the reality is, unless ALL pilots from every company get the same, there's going to be productivity and financial benefits to the companies that don't have expensive pilots and pilot working rules.
Your company must stay competitive, otherwise, you die.
And seeing as how our national union is championing the causes of underpaid overworked pilots (regionals), we're screwed.
Your company must stay competitive, otherwise, you die.
And seeing as how our national union is championing the causes of underpaid overworked pilots (regionals), we're screwed.
I'm not trying to flame you here, but what exactly would you like to see improved personally in the next contract, bearing in mind that improvements will give our competitors and edge?
I understand your economic premise, but at some point the line must be drawn that defines what the norm is for this job. Are we willing to accept the current norm or challenge it and find a way to improve this career?
It's kind of hard to argue that you want contract improvements, but don't really want them as they may unduly burden the company (and I'm not talking about salaries that will put us in that mansion on the nde beach in the south pacific
). Seriously not flaming, but what improvements (specifically, not just more money, etc?) do you hope for that also meet the criteria of subsidizing the travelling public? I really would like to hear your response as I get the felling you're not the only that feels thus way.
Last edited by LeineLodge; 04-05-2010 at 06:57 PM. Reason: iPhone autofill spelling. Can't figure out how to scroll the box to fix it :)
04-05-2010, 07:00 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,167
KC10,
A less long-winded, less adversarial post should have been:
What are the minimum improvements to this contract that will get you to vote YES in 2012+ ? Basically, what would be an acceptable norm?
LeineLodge
A less long-winded, less adversarial post should have been:
What are the minimum improvements to this contract that will get you to vote YES in 2012+ ? Basically, what would be an acceptable norm?
LeineLodge
04-05-2010, 07:02 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 233
Call it what you want...I choose to not argue with people who are obviously wrong and fail to admit it. Hope you never get displaced and have to commute somewhere because you can't sell your house. Cheers.
04-05-2010, 07:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
This is a very good question and honestly, I'm not sure if I know. But, seriously, I don't have the time tonight to give it some thought and form a realistic reply.
04-05-2010, 07:29 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: SLC 767ER Captain
Posts: 602
Removed and throttled back
Last edited by Waves; 04-06-2010 at 04:57 AM. Reason: Removed and throttled back
04-05-2010, 07:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: SLC 767ER Captain
Posts: 602
For now I must run. For those of you who seem to believe we should not return to our old hard earned pay scales and work rules, please have a great short lay over with limited pay and a lumpy matress. And to all, a good night!
04-05-2010, 07:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,167
Of course 9/11 didn't help, but there will be another economic 9/11 at some point. This will be a challenge for our NC to come up with a total package that the pilot group finds acceptable without pricing us out of competition.
I think a lot of little improvements (low/no cost items) could really sweeten a contract without having an undue burden imposed on the company. Of course I'd like to see more money/better work rules/etc too, but we should all be brainstorming over coming months for the many little items that could help make the next contract a win-win.
Let's face it, a suitably compensated and HAPPY labor force is in the company's best interest too. We just don't want to choke the golden goose.
Just a short list of small improvements:
1. crewmeals on flights that need them
2. automate off-rotation DH positive space booking vs. Long hold times
3. free wifi for crewmembers onboard, at least on DH's
4. Positive space to any city in lieu of DH to include all DCI carriers
5. PS to first non-DH city at beginning of rotation
Redeye tonight, gotta run. Let's keep the ideas coming
04-05-2010, 08:04 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Welcome back, Brer New.
All this "flying" and "working" stuff is keeping me off of the forums more... I guess all those evil commuters are calling in sick. Not going to be much Clamp show action in May either... the sadistic schedulers apparently know my normal body clock and gave me all but 2 A-period sims for my fluf training. What... on.... earth?!?
Keeping with the thread: Can we keep KC10 and PG as far far away from a union position as possible? Please?
04-05-2010, 08:09 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,990
OK Scoop and KC, so what I’m hearing here is that you guys are, like the majority, going to roll over and take the status quo as acceptable. You children can make fun of me as Grandpa if you like. I prefer to think of it as wisdom, old age sucks. It is this “bend over attitude, and here it comes belief” that we are all now stuck with. Thanks for your complacency and your company line acceptance. I guess with people like you, we are all destined to work 82 hours with decreasing pay. I hope you are proud. According to you, I should be embarrassed and ashamed. Wow, shame on you. You have a lot----to reluctantly learn my friends. Someday, you will find that you are not even on your own side let alone mine. My active flying days are severely numbered, but you, my friends will most likely have to live for many years with your decisions. I can assure you, you will regret your condescension of what I’m saying. My goals are not DALN or DAL S, my goals are DAL. Those egotists will attempt to condescend my ideas, but will ultimately pay a huge price for not listening. My misconceived arrogant points are designed to perpetuate our cause and to reinstate our wonderful profession to what it once was. You “newbees” should be all ears, but your egos prevent this. Unfortunately, you “newbees” think you have it all figured out. No one does. Without listening to your elders, good luck with that. You will get what you so arrogantly deserve. Good luck with that one too. Call me when it doesn’t quite work out for you. IT DOESN’T MATTER TO ME. I was just trying to help. Scoop and KC, you guys truly are not open to suggestions from old farts like me. You have all the answers. You can laugh at me and my ideas all you want to, but ultimately you will pay the price. I lost my unrecoverable pension, and you can scoff at my direction, but someday, you will look back and realize that my direction wasn’t that of a crazy man. Call me.
Waves,
Throttle back a little. First off, I did not agree with the "Grandpa" crack, and even called it disparaging, but I did think it was funny - just being honest.
Second - I wish I was a child, but seriously your opinions are very valuable (as are most) and add greatly to the discussion. But I do not know why are presuming that I enjoy the status quo - I don't. The point that KC-10 made that I agreed with was that the world has changed since the good old days and I don't think that they are coming back. I guess since I agreed with his point on this specific issue you are attributing his whole post to me also - I guess that is my fault for not being more specific.
Additionally, do not mistake this realism on my part for a "bending over" attitude, there are certain aspects of our contract and this job that I believe are total show stoppers and I would be willing to "set the parking brake" over.
I tend to think that most of us on this board are a lot more alike than different - for the most part we argue nuances and end up splitting hairs.
Don't get frustrated with the youngsters around here (of which I am not one) - as one of the elder statesmen of this thread your opinions often bring a unique perspective based on experience - the more of that the better.
Keep the posts coming!
Scoop
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