Check Essential

Bar-
Wow. Lots of revisionist history in that post.
I agree the Delta MEC Chairman was clueless about scope or just didn't care because it didn't affect his seniority.
(some would say that situation hasn't changed).

But c'mon-

JC Lawson was a visionary? Bull$h|T.
He was a political hack who bought into the wet-dreams of Dan Ford, Jesse Ashcraft and the other lifers who thought they had won the lottery when Delta bought Comair. Those guys truly believed they would become overnight 767 Captains.
JC Lawson was the RJDC's poodle.

acl65pilot

I wanted to send you a PM but you do not have that set up.

Bucking Bar

My version, or Sailings? My version comes straight from the paper trail which was carefully preserved and from attending joint meetings with MEC Chairs Arnold & Lawson. Arnolds predecessor Cooksey is the same as named in the subsequent litigation.

For all the Delta communications which allege "the Comair pilots demanded Date of Hire" there is not one single scrap of paper, nor anyone's notes, which point to any such statement ever having been made.

Another way to figure this out is to ask "what makes sense?" When it was ALPA policy to decide IF a merger was to take place before submitting HOW the merger was to be implemented, why is it such a stretch to believe pilots would follow those procedures sequentially, like a checklist?

The DCI guys took the high road and got slaughtered at the BOD meeting.

Waves

Don't worry, their MEC said they aren't interested in flying for Delta. Back at ya @h*les. By the way, as I recall, it was their first response that was the biggest kick in the groin to our guys. The ONLY reason I ever let a CA pilot ride the jumpseat after that was because I knew our guys sometimes reciprocate so I didn't want to start a war on their behalf.

Waves

Oh, I didn't realize actually what you were saying. I get it now. I'll see if I can fix that and get back with ya. Hold that thought.

acl65pilot

I figured with 140+ posts it had to be on your end since you would have those privileges by now.

Bucking Bar

Not at all. The RJDC and Lawson fought quite vigorously. Lawson was a MEC Chair and ALPA EVP. The RJDC had Lawson and Arnold running in fear that their MECs were going to get put into receivership. Consider how upset any MEC Chair would be if a group of pilots was so disruptive as to threaten the existence of that MEC ... like I said, they didn't exactly get along.

Lawson was no visionary, it was very easy to see what was going to happen. Delta ordered 500+ RJ's and they were going somewhere. ALPA refused to allow ASA or Comair to negotiate scope which would allow them to "capture" these airplanes. Delta management was intensely outsourcing everything and wanted many players in the portfolio to compete against ASA and Comair.

The model, as explained to me by Delta employee and ASA's President, Brian LeBreque, was to cycle the airplanes through carriers to avoid any pilots achieving more than 5 years of longevity. By forcing pilots to re-start their careers at zero, the airline could avoid the legacy costs of senior employees.

In Comair's case they were (are) a senior airline with a good contract which equals high costs. They were (did) get slaughtered when flying was being awarded competitively. Lawson did see this coming. His letter was a protest to the fact he had been shut out of negotiations which effected the future of his airline.

... and ... cite the example where a status quo merger put RJ pilots into the left seat of 767's. That's a fairy tale. Again, a merger by status quo is a staple. I actually have the draft of the DCI SLI presentation that was NEVER MADE somewhere. What they would have wanted (if it had ever got that far) is protections which would have allowed them to keep the left seat of their RJ's.

I haven't revised any history ... but now let me try a little speculation. What would have happened if the ASA and Comair pilots would have gotten their PID at the 2000 ALPA BOD meeting?

• Delta pilots would be performing very nearly 100% of Delta flying
• Delta would not have been incentivized to buy (or lease) nearly 700 RJ's
• It is highly unlikely any Delta pilots would have been furloughed (the ASA & Comair pilots would have hit the street instead)

I know it is intensely unpopular at Delta, but based on objective facts as well as probable outcomes, the Delta pilots would have been better off had ASA and Comair been merged, then stapled.

Waves

I added you to the buddy list and did the vcarddownload thing. I guess that will do it.

acl65pilot

make sure you have a valid e-mail addy on file and you select that you are willing to accept PM's.

Waves

There is no set amount, but if you call the IOE schedulers and ask, many times they will work with you on that. When I had my first FO MD-88 IOE, the instructor was an absolute flaming ahole. When they called me to give me the second half, it was with the same guy. Even though I was pretty junior at the time, I asked them if they could give me a different Captain. In five minutes, they called me back with a different guy. He was a pleasure to fly with. So it never hurts to ask.