Originally Posted by sailingfun

Much of what you post is correct. Many pilots forget that most RJ's still feed the mainline. There is however one thing that can be quantified in this discussion.
We peaked in pilot jobs in 2001. In June 07 before the merger we were flying almost exactly the same number of total pilot block hours as we had in 2001. However we were doing it with 7000 pilots instead of 10,000. There is only one possible explanation for that. Work rule changes. I once saw a breakdown of estimated jobs tied to each concession. 3000 was about right. Some concessions were hundreds of jobs each however what really got lost in the details is that there were around 100 small concessions that each might only be 5 to 25 jobs system wide. If they average 15 pilots lost per change however that is 1500 jobs before you get to the big stuff!.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Sailing, it is Manas Air Base. Great place and would kill for that trip to be in ATL. I have family over there. No kidding.

New, great to have you back. Go grab Carl and tell Ferd to stop lurking!

Originally Posted by sailingfun

I agree with everything you have posted. You also left out one very key point that mangagement loves!!!
VACATION IS PAY NO CREDIT!!!!!

The only way you could state the vacation bank is not a huge concession regardless of the hour value of each day is to make vacation PAY AND CREDIT!!!

If we changed vacation to pay and credit tomorrow a massive bid would have to be posted the next day. Seniority still plays in vacation. The senior guys bid high time trips and then pick up another trip or two all around their vacation. This is allowed since its pay no credit. It amounts to exactly the same thing as selling your vacation back to the company and not using it. Making vacation true time off by changing it to Pay and credit will be high on my contract wish list. I suspect however I will be in the minority. If it came to pass however I would move up a category and work fewer days and make the same money.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

So maybe this has already been asked but if we are talking solely about hourly rates (assuming scope and work rules, ect had already been addressed) each person here throw out a minimum percentage they think would be acceptable for pay increases over a 3 year contract for Contract 2012?

I am very curious to see where everybody stands on this. Many captains I have flown with talk about contract 2001 restoration and others don't think that is reasonable or sustainable. What do you think?

Originally Posted by Superpilot92

*Financials are looking good for 2010. Barring unforeseen difficulties should be profitable.


*Number one priority is using free cash to pay down debt.


*Aircraft on hand and in desert will provide ASM’s for next 2-3 years without need for significant capital expenditure on new aircraft. New aircraft deliveries include 2 -777’s this year, continued delivery of MD-90’s. Return aircraft from desert as needed.

*Planning for fuel expense for year at $86/barrel


*Increase seats in MD-90 to 160, MD-88 to 150, A-319 to 130.


*Overwater kit all A-319’s


*Any aircraft that can get winglets will be retrofitted.


*No progress in 787 acquisition talks with Boeing


*No 100 seat replacement on horizon. (Too large a capital expense for “old technology” aircraft)


*Increase Texas flying to replace feed lost when Continental left Sky Team.


*MEM and DTW are the hubs responding best to merged network. MEM costs remain low and complement ATL flow.


*Reduction of 130 RJ’s in next 2-3 years. Reduce multiple RJ frequencies with fewer but larger gauge mainline flights. Example was BHM reducing from 9 RJ’s to 6 mainline.

*RJ’s- Numbers continue to decrease. May 2009 DCI operated 718 aircraft. In Feb. 2010 - 705 aircraft.


*The Company may not add more 76 seat aircraft until the mainline fleet exceeds 767 aircraft. Current mainline fleet is below 767.


*The Company can operate a total of 255 70/76 seat aircraft. Currently operating 219 70/76 aircraft.


*Alitalia probable addition to AF/KLM Joint Venture. Delta is pursuing China Eastern to join Sky Team.

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude

Wow... I thought I had downloaded the wrong bid pack for a minute there. Lot's of 3 & 4 leg days with lots of short nights. At least they threw in some CDG and FRA as a consolation prize (not that I'll ever see it.)

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

So maybe this has already been asked but if we are talking solely about hourly rates (assuming scope and work rules, ect had already been addressed) each person here throw out a minimum percentage they think would be acceptable for pay increases over a 3 year contract for Contract 2012?

I am very curious to see where everybody stands on this. Many captains I have flown with talk about contract 2001 restoration and others don't think that is reasonable or sustainable. What do you think?

Originally Posted by DAL73n

You know that's something that needs to be addressed. I agree with you that what happens is guys get worn out by lousy trip construction in the name of efficiency. And I for one am not afraid to call in sick if I'm not fit to fly when I got worn out and sick from a poorly constructed 3 or 4 day trip. The worst is when they attempt to invert your body clock within 24 hours (east or west coast). You fly a red-eye out of the west coast and have to turn around and get up 22-24 hours later. Take off out of LAX at 10-11 pm west coast time and turn around for 0700 show on the east coast (0300 wake up) to come back and get paid 10 hours for the 3 day trip. If you have to do it more than once a month (with it only paying 10 hours you have a lot of work to do) there is no way you're not exhausted. I sure it's the same way with an east coast guy flying a west coast red-eye. There are more and more of these types of trips.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

We peaked in pilot jobs in 2001. In June 07 before the merger we were flying almost exactly the same number of total pilot block hours as we had in 2001. However we were doing it with 7000 pilots instead of 10,000. There is only one possible explanation for that. Work rule changes.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Much of what you post is correct. Many pilots forget that most RJ's still feed the mainline. There is however one thing that can be quantified in this discussion.
We peaked in pilot jobs in 2001. In June 07 before the merger we were flying almost exactly the same number of total pilot block hours as we had in 2001. However we were doing it with 7000 pilots instead of 10,000. There is only one possible explanation for that. Work rule changes. I once saw a breakdown of estimated jobs tied to each concession. 3000 was about right. Some concessions were hundreds of jobs each however what really got lost in the details is that there were around 100 small concessions that each might only be 5 to 25 jobs system wide. If they average 15 pilots lost per change however that is 1500 jobs before you get to the big stuff!.

There is another way to quantifiy this also. Pilots are now flying on average about 25 percent more block hours then in the past. In the 90's most Delta pilots flew about 600 block hours per year. That number is now around 800.
Thats 2500 jobs lost from a 10,000 pilot work force. The other 500 jobs were because we were over staffed in 01 and the eliminated the overage.
If you want to see advancement start thinking work rules in the next contract. Start thinking about real vacation that can't be sold or worked around. Start thinking about real caps with real limits. Tied to up coming retirements movement at Delta would be like a rocket ride if it came to pass.