Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-03-2010, 06:58 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 309
The flying is on it's way. More comes in June.
04-03-2010, 07:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,423
I am somewhat surprised at some statements here about past no furlough clauses. I never heard any one on contract road shows, mec meetings, contract handouts state we had a ironclad no furlough clause from any contract. All anyone had to do was read the contract to understand there was no intent for a iron clad clause. Force Majure as a concept was carefully explained at the road show I attended on the 01 contract. Most would agree 11 Sep was a FM event. The arbitrator agreed it was a FM event. The second round of furloughs were purely economic and the arbitrator ruled in our favor. The contract functioned as it was written.
04-03-2010, 08:11 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
It looked to me like they were all commutable on either the front or back end of the trip. I've seen much worse, like CoEx EWR trips.
What I think is wierd is they brought the MD88 into MSP because it can reach both coasts(or that was a rumor maybe), but for May it looks like all the trips start with MSP-ATL and then just hopping through ATL until the last day.
What I think is wierd is they brought the MD88 into MSP because it can reach both coasts(or that was a rumor maybe), but for May it looks like all the trips start with MSP-ATL and then just hopping through ATL until the last day.
The amazing thing was you could have 8 hour 4-days with 2 legs per day and min rest overnights. You just need long long sits at the hubs and outstations and they provided them.
So are we going to stop displacing?
How the heck did that photo get in my post? I was looking a photo up for the DC-9 thread someone started and this came up. Go google. Anyways, that is Princess Laila? Layla? And her body double.
I'm wondering how many people took <0.5 seconds to figure out what movie set that was and how many people will have Eric Clapton's Layla stuck in their head tonight?
Party on. I'm out.
04-03-2010, 08:16 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Now I'm out.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 04-03-2010 at 08:17 PM. Reason: I thought about saying I need to have a self evaluation tonight but that sounded wrong.
04-03-2010, 08:46 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
...No Furlough Clauses I must add that I was a bit miffed when ALPA did this autonomously without our blessings.
THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF FOR FUTURE NEGOTIATIONS!!!!!!
No Furlough Clauses are very deceptive and a complex issue to say the least. I could probably write a dissertation on the subject...
1) Furlough clauses are very expensive clauses for which the pilot group as a whole pays dearly.
3) Secretly, management loves “No Furlough Clauses” because in general, they aren’t worth the paper they are written on, yet they are hugely concessionary to the pilot group.
4) Although Pilot politically correct, furlough clauses are many times renegotiated or simply changed under duress when times get rough, making them an unrecoverable cost/loss to the pilot group.
5) End result is generally a huge concession to attain a no furlough clause, but in the end, if the situation dictates, furloughs will be accepted by all parties regardless of previous agreements.
6) Bottom line: Don’t be lured into and let future negotiations be driven by worthless “No furlough clauses.” ALPA must be politically correct with this issue, but don’t be fooled into spending a large amount of your negotiating power on this issue. You will be wasting your hard earned cash which will never be redeemed.
These are just thoughts I’d like to share with you from former Captains before us.
THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF FOR FUTURE NEGOTIATIONS!!!!!!
No Furlough Clauses are very deceptive and a complex issue to say the least. I could probably write a dissertation on the subject...
1) Furlough clauses are very expensive clauses for which the pilot group as a whole pays dearly.
3) Secretly, management loves “No Furlough Clauses” because in general, they aren’t worth the paper they are written on, yet they are hugely concessionary to the pilot group.
4) Although Pilot politically correct, furlough clauses are many times renegotiated or simply changed under duress when times get rough, making them an unrecoverable cost/loss to the pilot group.
5) End result is generally a huge concession to attain a no furlough clause, but in the end, if the situation dictates, furloughs will be accepted by all parties regardless of previous agreements.
6) Bottom line: Don’t be lured into and let future negotiations be driven by worthless “No furlough clauses.” ALPA must be politically correct with this issue, but don’t be fooled into spending a large amount of your negotiating power on this issue. You will be wasting your hard earned cash which will never be redeemed.
These are just thoughts I’d like to share with you from former Captains before us.
No furlough clauses are most often tied to agreements which loosen scope. Politically "no furlough" clauses provide cover for the sale of junior pilots jobs and upgrade potential. When junior pilots complain, they receive assurances that their job is still protected. Based on these happy talk promises, the sheeple vote yes with a clear conscience.
As you well point out (and as Sailing concurs) these job protection devices often are not designed for economic stresses and they commonly fail. While at the time they are sold as "job protection" when they fail, the tune changes to the need to help management load shed when the company is under duress. Just as we hear "our scope works by not working" (my former Rep's quote in response to a question on the Compass flow down).
So, I'd only disagree with you on a minor point. No Furlough Clauses cost nothing, are worth about as much and come in a bottle labeled "political eyewash."
I agree with Sailing that our approach to layered economic penalties is smart and more effective than blanket assurances.
In light of the trend data, our MEC did likely save folks like me a furlough (which would have looked bad given their support for the merger). I appreciate their work.
IMHO Job Protection should focus on scope. Since the jets currently flown by Compass and Republic would have little trouble replacing your 737 (I even see them carrying more than 100 folks out of UIO) I'd encourage you to join our merry minority of scope fanatics intent on keeping our jobs and careers.
04-03-2010, 09:16 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
Good guys ...
Delta Pilots Donate Playroom to Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children
ORLANDO, FL — The Delta Pilots’ Charitable Fund (DPCF) will present a donation of $150,000 to the Arnold Palmer Medical Center Foundation to equip a playroom in the Congenital Heart Unit of the Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children. The donation will provide for a fully outfitted play area in this state-of-the-art healthcare facility dedicated to the care of children in the Southeast.
The Delta Pilots Charitable Fund, the first and only charitable fund established, managed, and funded entirely by pilots of a major U.S. airline, was formed in 1999 as a philanthropic, tax-exempt 501(c) (3) fund that supports charitable activities and leaves a permanent legacy for future generations in communities where Delta’s pilots live and work. With this donation, the DPCF has donated almost $1 million to a variety of charities that help America’s most valuable resource – our children. The DPCF is committed to investing time and money in partnerships with organizations, such as the Arnold Palmer Medical Center Foundation, to enrich, and improve the lives of children in need.
DPCF Chairman, Delta First Officer Joe Houseman, stated, “The Delta pilots are a concerned, community-active and generous group. This contribution is especially exciting in that with this gift, the playroom will provide an enjoyable environment for children and their families for many years to come.”
Houseman, DPCF Board members and members of the Delta Master Executive Council of the Air Lines Pilots Association visited the hospital Wednesday evening, distributing stuffed “pilot” bears to children. The check will be presented to Arnold Palmer at the Bay Hill Invitational Tournament, a Professional Golf Association tour event hosted by Palmer.
Captain Lee Moak, Chairman of the Delta MEC, was among those visiting patients, “In our profession we regularly deal with stress and critical decisions, but I do not have adequate words to describe the stress that childhood illness brings to children and their loved ones. I hope that our donation can provide a few moments of joy during the anxious days of a child’s hospital stay. It is truly an honor for The Delta Pilots Charitable Fund, on behalf of the Delta pilots to make this donation to the Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children.”
“We are excited that the Delta Pilots Charitable Fund has chosen to make this gift to the newly renovated Pediatric Cardiovascular ICU unit. For many years, Delta and their pilots have been a big part of the Orlando community. Their support for Arnold Palmer Hospital is going to have a tremendous impact on the lives of the children we serve who deal with congenital heart disease,” added Chad Phillips, Vice President, Arnold Palmer Medical Center Foundation.
ORLANDO, FL — The Delta Pilots’ Charitable Fund (DPCF) will present a donation of $150,000 to the Arnold Palmer Medical Center Foundation to equip a playroom in the Congenital Heart Unit of the Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children. The donation will provide for a fully outfitted play area in this state-of-the-art healthcare facility dedicated to the care of children in the Southeast.
The Delta Pilots Charitable Fund, the first and only charitable fund established, managed, and funded entirely by pilots of a major U.S. airline, was formed in 1999 as a philanthropic, tax-exempt 501(c) (3) fund that supports charitable activities and leaves a permanent legacy for future generations in communities where Delta’s pilots live and work. With this donation, the DPCF has donated almost $1 million to a variety of charities that help America’s most valuable resource – our children. The DPCF is committed to investing time and money in partnerships with organizations, such as the Arnold Palmer Medical Center Foundation, to enrich, and improve the lives of children in need.
DPCF Chairman, Delta First Officer Joe Houseman, stated, “The Delta pilots are a concerned, community-active and generous group. This contribution is especially exciting in that with this gift, the playroom will provide an enjoyable environment for children and their families for many years to come.”
Houseman, DPCF Board members and members of the Delta Master Executive Council of the Air Lines Pilots Association visited the hospital Wednesday evening, distributing stuffed “pilot” bears to children. The check will be presented to Arnold Palmer at the Bay Hill Invitational Tournament, a Professional Golf Association tour event hosted by Palmer.
Captain Lee Moak, Chairman of the Delta MEC, was among those visiting patients, “In our profession we regularly deal with stress and critical decisions, but I do not have adequate words to describe the stress that childhood illness brings to children and their loved ones. I hope that our donation can provide a few moments of joy during the anxious days of a child’s hospital stay. It is truly an honor for The Delta Pilots Charitable Fund, on behalf of the Delta pilots to make this donation to the Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children.”
“We are excited that the Delta Pilots Charitable Fund has chosen to make this gift to the newly renovated Pediatric Cardiovascular ICU unit. For many years, Delta and their pilots have been a big part of the Orlando community. Their support for Arnold Palmer Hospital is going to have a tremendous impact on the lives of the children we serve who deal with congenital heart disease,” added Chad Phillips, Vice President, Arnold Palmer Medical Center Foundation.
04-03-2010, 10:23 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 66
Well for all of us DTW 75 guys the nightmare has begun. What was once a great category, doing great trips has been ruined by our friends at Mecca south. Thanks Delta for the horrendous May trips and for converting DTW to a satellite base for ATL, with it's inadequate facilities, over saturation and lousy spring and summer weather........ can't wait.
04-03-2010, 11:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,858
Well for all of us DTW 75 guys the nightmare has begun. What was once a great category, doing great trips has been ruined by our friends at Mecca south. Thanks Delta for the horrendous May trips and for converting DTW to a satellite base for ATL, with it's inadequate facilities, over saturation and lousy spring and summer weather........ can't wait.
Have to agree here. Bid packet looks TERRIBLE.
***, I haven't done 4 legs since I was on the DC-9, and did 3 on the 75 exactly once.
Now I see the "Florida Shuttle" out of ATL.
You don't run 4 consecutive 13 hour duty with this crowd with no warning. This is going to go over like a fart in church, and guys who don't look at the bid packet ahead of time are in for a nasty surprise.
Nu
04-04-2010, 02:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Heyas,
Have to agree here. Bid packet looks TERRIBLE.
***, I haven't done 4 legs since I was on the DC-9, and did 3 on the 75 exactly once.
Now I see the "Florida Shuttle" out of ATL.
You don't run 4 consecutive 13 hour duty with this crowd with no warning. This is going to go over like a fart in church, and guys who don't look at the bid packet ahead of time are in for a nasty surprise.
Nu
Have to agree here. Bid packet looks TERRIBLE.
***, I haven't done 4 legs since I was on the DC-9, and did 3 on the 75 exactly once.
Now I see the "Florida Shuttle" out of ATL.
You don't run 4 consecutive 13 hour duty with this crowd with no warning. This is going to go over like a fart in church, and guys who don't look at the bid packet ahead of time are in for a nasty surprise.
Nu
04-04-2010, 03:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
Heyas,
Have to agree here. Bid packet looks TERRIBLE.
***, I haven't done 4 legs since I was on the DC-9, and did 3 on the 75 exactly once.
Now I see the "Florida Shuttle" out of ATL.
You don't run 4 consecutive 13 hour duty with this crowd with no warning. This is going to go over like a fart in church, and guys who don't look at the bid packet ahead of time are in for a nasty surprise.
Nu
Have to agree here. Bid packet looks TERRIBLE.
***, I haven't done 4 legs since I was on the DC-9, and did 3 on the 75 exactly once.
Now I see the "Florida Shuttle" out of ATL.
You don't run 4 consecutive 13 hour duty with this crowd with no warning. This is going to go over like a fart in church, and guys who don't look at the bid packet ahead of time are in for a nasty surprise.
Nu
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