Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-22-2010, 02:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
There are 4 low cost carriers that are a part of this six way deal, JetBlue included in DCA. Evidently it's not the right low cost carrier, somebody is trying to pick the winners here. Why even play the game if the outcome doesn't match the referees agenda then the outcome is tossed.
They apparently ARE a Low Cost Carrier!!!
Westjet is an interesting one....Don't they codeshare with SOUTHWEST already???
I just hope they (AAI) start flying LGA-MKE and LGA-DEN and LGA-MCI to beat on you-know-who.....
03-22-2010, 03:16 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 737n/FO
Posts: 667
Both the junior f-DAL and f-NWA pilots blame each other for their QOL decline, but the merger is only part of the story.
A more reasonable approach is to look at the DOT data that shows how both NWA and DAL have been shrinking, both during good times and bad. I posted the numbers a few months ago (don't have them in front of me right now) but the bankruptcies saw years where our airlines emerged more than 15% smaller than they were the year prior.
Probably a better focus is to understand why we are shrinking and what we've done to contribute to our own decline. The most obvious answer is looking at the block hours we sent out the door to regional and code share carriers. This is somewhat within our control, via the people we elect to represent us and how we direct them.
We also have a Company that is making all the right noises about growth. The way I see it the new health care bill will level the playing field and increase costs at some of Delta's competitors who fail to provide for their employees as well as Delta does.
I'm quite optimistic the QOL for both f-DAL and F-NWA guys will improve going forward, if the economy holds and if we focus on delivering the best possible product to our Customers (even if we're feeling a little disgruntled).
FWIW - I was a 767 line holder the month the decision came down. By summer, I'll be a MD88 reserve barely holding my home town. Thus far, none of that decline has been a result of f-NWA guys. It has been a result of the Company parking a lot of 767 capacity. I'm nearly to the point of admitting the merger saved me a furlough (not quite yet) but I'll enjoy eating crow next spring.
A more reasonable approach is to look at the DOT data that shows how both NWA and DAL have been shrinking, both during good times and bad. I posted the numbers a few months ago (don't have them in front of me right now) but the bankruptcies saw years where our airlines emerged more than 15% smaller than they were the year prior.
Probably a better focus is to understand why we are shrinking and what we've done to contribute to our own decline. The most obvious answer is looking at the block hours we sent out the door to regional and code share carriers. This is somewhat within our control, via the people we elect to represent us and how we direct them.
We also have a Company that is making all the right noises about growth. The way I see it the new health care bill will level the playing field and increase costs at some of Delta's competitors who fail to provide for their employees as well as Delta does.
I'm quite optimistic the QOL for both f-DAL and F-NWA guys will improve going forward, if the economy holds and if we focus on delivering the best possible product to our Customers (even if we're feeling a little disgruntled).
FWIW - I was a 767 line holder the month the decision came down. By summer, I'll be a MD88 reserve barely holding my home town. Thus far, none of that decline has been a result of f-NWA guys. It has been a result of the Company parking a lot of 767 capacity. I'm nearly to the point of admitting the merger saved me a furlough (not quite yet) but I'll enjoy eating crow next spring.
Just food for thought: AA has guys on furlough, United has 1999 hires on the street.
Furloughs for Delta: ZERO.
Think about it.
03-22-2010, 03:55 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
WallStreet Journal BUSINESS
MARCH 22, 2010, 6:32 P.M. ET.
Southwest Calls Slot Plan by Delta, US Air 'Alarming'
By DOUG CAMERON Southwest Airlines Co. Monday made a pitch for slots at two of the most congested U.S. airports in response to a controversial asset-swap plan from Delta Air Lines Inc and US Airways Group Inc.
The largest U.S. airline by passenger numbers called on U.S. regulators to increase the number of takeoff and landing slots that its two rivals would have to surrender to secure backing for their plan.
The U.S. Department of Transportation tentatively approved the slot swap at Reagan Washington National Airport and New York's LaGuardia Airport, announced by the airlines last summer.
The DOT's proposal that they give up a percentage of their existing slots irked both carriers, which said they may walk away from a deal.
The comment period on the most extensive slot deal ever proposed in the U.S. closes Monday, and Southwest fired the first salvo in what is expected to become an extended battle by calling the plan "an alarming prospect."
Dallas-based Southwest said it would entrench the competitive position of Delta and US Airways at LaGuardia and Reagan National, respectively. This mirrored concerns expressed by the DOT.
If the DOT approves the pact, Southwest called for more slots to be given up by Delta and US Airways and distributed through an open auction.
Delta and US Airways have yet to file their comments.
03-22-2010, 04:05 PM
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Posts: 18,563
Well there has been a lot of leg work being done on this issue. The comment period is over and there is a lot going on behind the scenes.
I have my popcorn.
I have my popcorn.
03-22-2010, 04:10 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I really believe we're better off together than we would be separate. I don't think "blaming" the new Delta for any of the moves it has made is very productive. A lot has to do with the economy and certainly we all could be fairly just as poorly if both companies had been standalone (many people seem to be blaming the new Delta and claiming they would be in better shape without the merger).
Just food for thought: AA has guys on furlough, United has 1999 hires on the street.
Furloughs for Delta: ZERO.
Think about it.
Just food for thought: AA has guys on furlough, United has 1999 hires on the street.
Furloughs for Delta: ZERO.
Think about it.
Point is that yes, we have been doing things correctly, but there are also other factors to consider. Given where the macro economy is, both the DALPA team and the DAL Management team have been doing a good job.
Now all we need is a good slice of restoration and to return this job to a good career.
03-22-2010, 04:11 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Hmmmmm so is this good?
03-22-2010, 04:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
I still don't think the DOT is going to sign off on this amended transaction either. The DOT wants Southwest and JetBlue to get more slots out of LGA so I doubt they'll be happy with this proposal either. We need to get this thing signed off so we can start this flying!
03-22-2010, 04:22 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
WallStreet Journal BUSINESS
MARCH 22, 2010, 6:32 P.M. ET.
Southwest Calls Slot Plan by Delta, US Air 'Alarming'
By DOUG CAMERON Southwest Airlines Co. Monday made a pitch for slots at two of the most congested U.S. airports in response to a controversial asset-swap plan from Delta Air Lines Inc and US Airways Group Inc.
The largest U.S. airline by passenger numbers called on U.S. regulators to increase the number of takeoff and landing slots that its two rivals would have to surrender to secure backing for their plan.
The U.S. Department of Transportation tentatively approved the slot swap at Reagan Washington National Airport and New York's LaGuardia Airport, announced by the airlines last summer.
The DOT's proposal that they give up a percentage of their existing slots irked both carriers, which said they may walk away from a deal.
The comment period on the most extensive slot deal ever proposed in the U.S. closes Monday, and Southwest fired the first salvo in what is expected to become an extended battle by calling the plan "an alarming prospect."
Dallas-based Southwest said it would entrench the competitive position of Delta and US Airways at LaGuardia and Reagan National, respectively. This mirrored concerns expressed by the DOT.
If the DOT approves the pact, Southwest called for more slots to be given up by Delta and US Airways and distributed through an open auction.
Delta and US Airways have yet to file their comments.
03-22-2010, 04:26 PM
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Delta, US Airways maneuver around Southwest Airlines
4:05 PM Mon, Mar 22, 2010 |
It appears that Delta Air Lines and US Airways may have worked out a pretty smart maneuver to avoid letting Southwest Airlines grow in New York and enter Washington National at those two carriers' expense. In a proposal Monday, Delta and US Airways picked four carriers to get slots that Delta and US Airways would give up, and not one of the carriers is named Southwest Airlines.
Monday was the deadline for interested parties to respond to the proposal from Delta and US Airways to swap slots and facilities at New York LaGuardia and Washington National. To recap their original proposal from last August, Delta would give US Airways 42 pairs of slots at National, the right to fly to Sao Paulo, Brazil, and Tokyo, plus space in LaGuardia's Marine Terminal.
In exchange, US Airways would give Delta 125 pairs of slots at LaGuardia and lease another 15 pairs of slots at LaGuardia with an option to buy. Delta would also get space in LaGuardia's Terminal C. On Feb. 9, the FAA told the two carriers they could do the deal if competitors were provided up 20 pairs of slots at LaGuardia and 14 pairs of slots at Washington National. The slot divestiture was to answer concerns about anticompetitive effects of the transaction.
The FAA said the deal as proposed would have meant that Delta would control 58 percent of the slots at LaGuardia, up from 47 percent, and US Airways would control 54 percent of the Washington National slots, up from 44 percent. The FAA order prompted some corporate drooling at Southwest, which has only eight pairs of slots and one gate at LaGuardia.The Delta-US Airways deal offered the opportunity to grow in New York and to enter Washington National, Southwest believed.
That's because the FAA said the surrendered slots would have to go to new entrants at those airports or airlines with less than five percent of the operations. At New York, Southwest, Spirit Airlines, JetBlue Airways and AirTran Airways qualified as incumbents with less than 5 percent. At Washington, it would be AirTran and Spirit.
In its filing Monday, Southwest opposed the entire Delta and US Airways deal. If it went through, the FAA should require more than the 20 LaGuardia pairs and 14 Washington National pairs of slots, Southwest said. In addition, Delta and US Airways should sell the slots in an open auction to the highest cash bidder, Southwest said.
But Delta and US Airways instead proposed that they give up fewer slots -- 15 at LaGuardia and five at Washington National -- and that they get to pick the winners. (FTB NOTE- BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE IDIOTS AT THE DOT SAID WE COULD DO...) Those would be Spirit, AirTran and new entrant WestJet Airlines at LaGuardia, with five pairs of slots each, and JetBlue at Washington National, with five pairs of slots.
Delta and US Airways also made it a take-it-or-leave-it proposal.
In their press release, the carriers said they "do not intend to go forward with the transaction on the conditions stated in the FAA's Feb. 9 notice, if the original transaction, as modified by today's agreement, is not approved."
UPDATE: Southwest Airlines associate general counsel Bob Kneisley issued this late comment after examining the Delta-US Airways announcement:
"As we predicted in our comments filed earlier today, US Airways and Delta did exactly as we feared by attempting to hand select their competitors in the New York and Washington, D.C. markets.
"It is not up to US Airways and Delta to unilaterally decide how public assets such as valuable airport slots are put into use to serve consumers, and this new proposal does not alleviate the highly anticompetitive nature of the original Delta-US Airways agreement.
"This announcement, made immediately after the comment deadline on the original proposal closed, confirms the need for the DOT/FAA, with the appropriate participation of the DOJ, to reopen the entire proceeding for further investigation and to permit additional comments on this new proposal."
---
I think SWA management team is trying to get jobs in DC.
4:05 PM Mon, Mar 22, 2010 |
It appears that Delta Air Lines and US Airways may have worked out a pretty smart maneuver to avoid letting Southwest Airlines grow in New York and enter Washington National at those two carriers' expense. In a proposal Monday, Delta and US Airways picked four carriers to get slots that Delta and US Airways would give up, and not one of the carriers is named Southwest Airlines.
Monday was the deadline for interested parties to respond to the proposal from Delta and US Airways to swap slots and facilities at New York LaGuardia and Washington National. To recap their original proposal from last August, Delta would give US Airways 42 pairs of slots at National, the right to fly to Sao Paulo, Brazil, and Tokyo, plus space in LaGuardia's Marine Terminal.
In exchange, US Airways would give Delta 125 pairs of slots at LaGuardia and lease another 15 pairs of slots at LaGuardia with an option to buy. Delta would also get space in LaGuardia's Terminal C. On Feb. 9, the FAA told the two carriers they could do the deal if competitors were provided up 20 pairs of slots at LaGuardia and 14 pairs of slots at Washington National. The slot divestiture was to answer concerns about anticompetitive effects of the transaction.
The FAA said the deal as proposed would have meant that Delta would control 58 percent of the slots at LaGuardia, up from 47 percent, and US Airways would control 54 percent of the Washington National slots, up from 44 percent. The FAA order prompted some corporate drooling at Southwest, which has only eight pairs of slots and one gate at LaGuardia.The Delta-US Airways deal offered the opportunity to grow in New York and to enter Washington National, Southwest believed.
That's because the FAA said the surrendered slots would have to go to new entrants at those airports or airlines with less than five percent of the operations. At New York, Southwest, Spirit Airlines, JetBlue Airways and AirTran Airways qualified as incumbents with less than 5 percent. At Washington, it would be AirTran and Spirit.
In its filing Monday, Southwest opposed the entire Delta and US Airways deal. If it went through, the FAA should require more than the 20 LaGuardia pairs and 14 Washington National pairs of slots, Southwest said. In addition, Delta and US Airways should sell the slots in an open auction to the highest cash bidder, Southwest said.
But Delta and US Airways instead proposed that they give up fewer slots -- 15 at LaGuardia and five at Washington National -- and that they get to pick the winners. (FTB NOTE- BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE IDIOTS AT THE DOT SAID WE COULD DO...) Those would be Spirit, AirTran and new entrant WestJet Airlines at LaGuardia, with five pairs of slots each, and JetBlue at Washington National, with five pairs of slots.
Delta and US Airways also made it a take-it-or-leave-it proposal.
In their press release, the carriers said they "do not intend to go forward with the transaction on the conditions stated in the FAA's Feb. 9 notice, if the original transaction, as modified by today's agreement, is not approved."
UPDATE: Southwest Airlines associate general counsel Bob Kneisley issued this late comment after examining the Delta-US Airways announcement:
"As we predicted in our comments filed earlier today, US Airways and Delta did exactly as we feared by attempting to hand select their competitors in the New York and Washington, D.C. markets.
"It is not up to US Airways and Delta to unilaterally decide how public assets such as valuable airport slots are put into use to serve consumers, and this new proposal does not alleviate the highly anticompetitive nature of the original Delta-US Airways agreement.
"This announcement, made immediately after the comment deadline on the original proposal closed, confirms the need for the DOT/FAA, with the appropriate participation of the DOJ, to reopen the entire proceeding for further investigation and to permit additional comments on this new proposal."
---
I think SWA management team is trying to get jobs in DC.
03-22-2010, 04:45 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Being a betting man, the DOT was probably consulted on this option. I guess we will find out.
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