Free Bird

Actually it's not far off. Each (big) airport has it's own TSA staff and Federal Security Director or (FSD) who works in conjunction with his or her assigned airport. The TSA and the airports work out agreements on how certain aspects of the security process will work, ID readers at the gates in Atlanta is one example of local policy.

The relationship between the airlines, airports and the TSA is a very complex and political one. Political beyond what most folks realize. I see this getting standardized sometime in the next 50 years or so.

acl65pilot

Why do you think you can bypass in some locals and not in others?
As the TSA folks. This is why they state. I am not making this up.

acl65pilot

Correct. Local TSA is the reason we can not swipe at the gates in ATL and proceed to the jet.
We deal with each airport office and each regional office where we serve. There are nuances to each office.

acl65pilot

The legal difference is you are going to work to exercise a privilege, not a right. You have a right to work, but to perform the job we do it requires a certificate to exercise a privilege. I did not say I agreed with it, I am just telling you the way the law sees it. It is the same reason they could suspend a license without due process.

As for the second part. My guns and the right to bear them is protected by the constitution. It is not a privilege, it is a right. Legally that is very different.

As for TSA, that is a policy. I would never give up my license on the spot.

BlueMoon

Surrender is the wrong word. They can inspect it, I didn't know that the TSA was included, but they are specifically in there now (depending if they are "authorized", you bet I would be asking for the supervisor and a police officer).

NEVER let it out of your sight.

acl65pilot

Here is an article that was on PPrune about the revocation of our licenses. There was an appeal of the ruling, but to my recollection it never happened.

25th January 2003, 19:04
From Yahoo:

U.S. Tightens Air Security Rules, Pilots Complain
Fri Jan 24,10:12 PM ET


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. regulators issued a rule on Friday giving them the authority to immediately revoke, suspend or deny licenses to pilots or professional credentials to other aviation workers deemed a security risk by the government.

The rule, which was issued without prior public notice or comment and took effect immediately, builds on similar steps ordered by Congress in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, airline hijack attacks to more closely monitor the aviation industry.

Critics, from commercial pilots to those who fly small planes, complained the new regulation was overly broad and could result in arbitrary decisions.

"These rules beg many questions as to the rights of pilots," said Phil Boyer, president of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.

That group represents general aviation interests.

Commercial pilots also questioned the regulation, saying it was heavy handed.

"This rule clearly crosses the line separating legitimate security measures from secretive, unaccountable government conduct," Duane Woerth, president of the largest commercial pilots union, the Air Line Pilots Association (news - web sites), said in a statement late Friday.

The rule would permit the Federal Aviation Administration (news - web sites) to revoke the airman certificate of pilots, mechanics, and dispatchers determined a security risk by the Transportation Security Administration.

Those workers must have that credential for employment in the industry.

"While the rule spells out in clear detail the process by which the revocation would occur, there is absolutely no discussion of standards, procedures, or criteria by which the TSA might make a determination that an individual is a 'security threat,' Woerth said.

He also criticized the appeal process as a "virtually empty exercise."

Airline pilots, mechanics, and other airline workers are already required to clear a 10-year criminal background check with fingerprinting, the pilots' union said.

The government is soliciting public comments after the fact and could modify the regulation at a later date.

acl65pilot

Read below. If they over turned this ruling, great, but to my knowledge this little deal stands.

I let the FAA write the number down at the beginning of the flight, but I watch them perform that function. After that it goes back in my bag.

acl65pilot

Another article:
AOPA from 2003 as well.

AOPA

Congressionally ordered TSA and FAA security rules go into effect
TSA can order immediate revocation of a pilot license

Jan. 23 — The FAA and Transportation Security Administration (TSA) tomorrow will publish "direct final rules" that permit FAA to immediately suspend, revoke, or refuse to issue an airman certificate of anyone that TSA has determined poses a threat to transportation security. The agencies issued the rules under the authority Congress gave them when it passed the Aviation Transportation Security Act of 2001 and directed TSA and FAA to "make modifications in the system for issuing airman certificates related to combating acts of terrorism."

"AOPA solidly supports every reasonable action to prevent terrorist acts, but these rules beg many questions as to the rights of pilots," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "AOPA's legal and technical staff will examine them letter by letter to understand all of the implications, and in the coming days, we will formulate the right response to the comment period that follows, rather than precedes, this form of rulemaking."

The new rules go into effect immediately since the agencies issued them as a direct final rule without prior public notice or comment. However, the agencies are soliciting public comments after the fact and may modify the rules. Members are encouraged to comment and copy the association.

The rules establish procedures for notifying the airman and an appeal process. U.S. citizens may ultimately appeal to the head of TSA, while foreign citizens have lesser appeal rights.

TSA said that perhaps one person per year might be flagged as a security threat.

Initial analysis indicates that the Transportation Security Administration holds the sole authority in a pilot appeal. AOPA has historically fought to ensure that more than one agency is involved in adjudicating certificate revocations.

"With all due regard to national security, we're deeply concerned that the rules appear to permit taking away a pilot's license without an independent review," said Boyer.

georgetg

At the Regionals, the crew bypasses the TSA at most outstations.
The IDs typically are checked against the release...

Cheers
George

kamsman

Hey ACL or anyone else in the know...What's the latest on the MD-90? How many do we have, how many are we getting for sure and are we going to be able to get anymore? Jumpseater said he heard we were going to have 50 by next year.