Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-11-2010, 07:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
I swiped this from another thread. It is the full version of the article previously posted about the future of scope. This guy nails it.
Swelblog / Swelbar on Airlines - Articles - Mainline Pilot Scope: Will Regional Carriers Be Permitted to Fly 90+ SeatAircraft?
This is the upshot of the story:
It Is All About the Economics
Perhaps a better way than scope for pilot unions to think about job protection is to find the economics that will employ the most pilots at the mainline. That challenge must acknowledge the fact that today’s industry is not the industry of yesteryear. If the regional industry has been used as currency to cross-subsidize pilots at the mainline; and assuming that the trading currency is not what is was as we engage in this round of bargaining, then something has to give.
There are two solutions as I see it: 1) relax scope in order to win bigger increases in wages, benefits and working conditions for pilots that remain at the mainline; or 2) embrace the absolute fact that contractual rates, work rules and benefits need to be lower for US domestic mainline flying. That type of carve out can be negotiated. Domestic market flying differentials can be the new trading currency used to adapt any pilot contract to the market realities of today. There is no way to “perfume the pig” here; the mainline did something similar in 1984 in order to average down labor costs to facilitate growth. When it was decided that the concept was not internally healthy, mainline pilot labor made the regional industry the new vehicle for cross-subsidization of mainline pilot terms of employment.
One trend is clear: the industry’s pricing structure cannot now support labor rates that keep pace with inflation. An unpopular message -- yes. But there needs to be a structure in place that recognizes the different conditions in the US domestic market versus international markets. This structure must recognize that not all flying is created equal, just as the airlines are coming to appreciate that a one size fits all operation is not financially sustainable. There is a tremendous opportunity to put in place something better – if only the players at the table can let go of the past and come to terms with a new era in the airline industry.
Where Do I Come Out?
I recently saw a piece by Lori Ranson on the Airline Business blog titled: “A New Line In the Sand” that cites comments by long-time Raymond James analyst Jim Parker on the future of scope: “As employee groups seek to regain some concessions made early last decade as a host of carriers spent time in Chapter 11, there could be some leeway in the size of jets flown by mainline regional partners,” according to the analysis. James sees the potential to renegotiate current scope clauses, moving the dial from 70-seats to 90-seats.
I am not one to be on the other side of Parker often, but on this one I am. I do not believe that the mainline pilot unions can afford to make another mistake. Their arrogance toward regional jet flying led to their current predicament. The economics of US domestic flying is simply much more difficult now for the legacy carriers. If labor can’t let go of their memories of what the industry was 20 years ago to focus instead on where it’s going over the next 20 years, then they will have no one to blame but themselves if they fail to help position airlines – and the pilots they represent – for success. John Kennedy once said: “Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.”
It won’t be easy for pilot union leaders to find a solution for a problem that they helped to create. Just as the US Airways East scope clause defines small, medium and large regional aircraft, it is time to define small, medium and large narrowbody equipment necessary to profitably serve the domestic market.
Once again, a call for pilot union leadership. My view is that management is indifferent as to which pilot group does the flying. I am thinking we are at that critical juncture in an evolving situation that leads to a new and irreversible development – mainline legacy carrier pilots performing narrowbody flying in the US domestic market 20 years from now – or NOT.
Swelblog / Swelbar on Airlines - Articles - Mainline Pilot Scope: Will Regional Carriers Be Permitted to Fly 90+ SeatAircraft?
This is the upshot of the story:
It Is All About the Economics
Perhaps a better way than scope for pilot unions to think about job protection is to find the economics that will employ the most pilots at the mainline. That challenge must acknowledge the fact that today’s industry is not the industry of yesteryear. If the regional industry has been used as currency to cross-subsidize pilots at the mainline; and assuming that the trading currency is not what is was as we engage in this round of bargaining, then something has to give.
There are two solutions as I see it: 1) relax scope in order to win bigger increases in wages, benefits and working conditions for pilots that remain at the mainline; or 2) embrace the absolute fact that contractual rates, work rules and benefits need to be lower for US domestic mainline flying. That type of carve out can be negotiated. Domestic market flying differentials can be the new trading currency used to adapt any pilot contract to the market realities of today. There is no way to “perfume the pig” here; the mainline did something similar in 1984 in order to average down labor costs to facilitate growth. When it was decided that the concept was not internally healthy, mainline pilot labor made the regional industry the new vehicle for cross-subsidization of mainline pilot terms of employment.
One trend is clear: the industry’s pricing structure cannot now support labor rates that keep pace with inflation. An unpopular message -- yes. But there needs to be a structure in place that recognizes the different conditions in the US domestic market versus international markets. This structure must recognize that not all flying is created equal, just as the airlines are coming to appreciate that a one size fits all operation is not financially sustainable. There is a tremendous opportunity to put in place something better – if only the players at the table can let go of the past and come to terms with a new era in the airline industry.
Where Do I Come Out?
I recently saw a piece by Lori Ranson on the Airline Business blog titled: “A New Line In the Sand” that cites comments by long-time Raymond James analyst Jim Parker on the future of scope: “As employee groups seek to regain some concessions made early last decade as a host of carriers spent time in Chapter 11, there could be some leeway in the size of jets flown by mainline regional partners,” according to the analysis. James sees the potential to renegotiate current scope clauses, moving the dial from 70-seats to 90-seats.
I am not one to be on the other side of Parker often, but on this one I am. I do not believe that the mainline pilot unions can afford to make another mistake. Their arrogance toward regional jet flying led to their current predicament. The economics of US domestic flying is simply much more difficult now for the legacy carriers. If labor can’t let go of their memories of what the industry was 20 years ago to focus instead on where it’s going over the next 20 years, then they will have no one to blame but themselves if they fail to help position airlines – and the pilots they represent – for success. John Kennedy once said: “Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.”
It won’t be easy for pilot union leaders to find a solution for a problem that they helped to create. Just as the US Airways East scope clause defines small, medium and large regional aircraft, it is time to define small, medium and large narrowbody equipment necessary to profitably serve the domestic market.
Once again, a call for pilot union leadership. My view is that management is indifferent as to which pilot group does the flying. I am thinking we are at that critical juncture in an evolving situation that leads to a new and irreversible development – mainline legacy carrier pilots performing narrowbody flying in the US domestic market 20 years from now – or NOT.
03-11-2010, 07:15 AM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
BTW my car may have Pontiac Badges but it was built in Australia by Holden Motors.
Holden Monaro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Originally the Holden Monaro and was shipped over to the states and called the "GTO"
here's someone else's GTO having traction troubles also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ2Lpseielc
Last edited by Superpilot92; 03-11-2010 at 07:28 AM.
03-11-2010, 07:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
03-11-2010, 07:26 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Didn't Mad Max drive a Holden (something) in the movies?
03-11-2010, 07:32 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
03-11-2010, 07:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
So something the size of a Honda Accord with a six speed, corvette engine and rear-wheel drive... It will be sad to see Pontiac go. Thank God the gas pedal didn't stick in that thing.
03-11-2010, 07:42 AM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
No the Holden SS is the Austalian version of the Pontiac G8. (4 doors) The Monaro and GTO are 2 doors
03-11-2010, 07:44 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Maybe we can get a resolution passed where all small jet and domestic codeshare scope is off the table for ANY negotiation. Lets put a Concrete Casket around it just like they did in Chernobyl to stop the spread of the cancer. The best way to do it would be to get all the LECs at ALL the Majors to do it. ALPA, APA, USAPA, all via grassroots. Unity is the only way.
The sarcophagus around the reactor in Chernobyl was in big trouble for awhile. All that radiation was cracking the concrete so they needed to come up with a better solution. I'm just sayin'.
Oh BTW... Chernobyl happened on April 26, 1986... same date I got married.
(Also the governator and Maria on the same day too... so I got that goin' for me) Party in Sacramento!
03-11-2010, 07:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
The problem is we are dealing with rodents, they will just tunnel under the sarcophagus. 
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