Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-10-2010, 11:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
I think I'm gonna be sick.
Bottom line is if you push dispatched under weight and went back to the gate.. you didn't do your preflight number crunching properly. I would think it would be pretty hard to defend going back to the gate to pick up anybody, especially non-revs. As a commuter, I am very sensitive to getting all the nonrevs on, (because there is a very good chance it could be ME that gets on) but that needs to be done prior to push. period. After that, you are really hanging 'em out there.
Bottom line is if you push dispatched under weight and went back to the gate.. you didn't do your preflight number crunching properly. I would think it would be pretty hard to defend going back to the gate to pick up anybody, especially non-revs. As a commuter, I am very sensitive to getting all the nonrevs on, (because there is a very good chance it could be ME that gets on) but that needs to be done prior to push. period. After that, you are really hanging 'em out there.
Now that we get the Final MGL before push this shoUld not happen or can be questioned.
03-10-2010, 11:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Its the facts. We are hurting them. They have cut a lot of flying. I would tell them to be prepared to cut more. It is about to get interesting.
They are going to MKE to diversity. Best of luck with LUV and RJET up there. They really are in a bind. There best hope is for LUV to buy em.
It appears with new flights like HSV to BWI and MCO they are trying the Allegiant model of cherry picking routes and leaving when it does not work.
They are going to MKE to diversity. Best of luck with LUV and RJET up there. They really are in a bind. There best hope is for LUV to buy em.
It appears with new flights like HSV to BWI and MCO they are trying the Allegiant model of cherry picking routes and leaving when it does not work.
Yes it appears they are in deep trouble
. 2010 appears to be on track for numbers in the same range. You don't have to like them but the numbers do speak for themselves. Who knows what will happen going forward.Net Income 2009 :
AAI: 134. 6 Million profit
ALK: 121.6 Million profit
LUV: 99.0 Million profit
DAL: 1.23 Billion Loss
03-10-2010, 11:44 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,021
RD73,
Could be said that we saved AirTran, when we out bid them for MidWest. Another "investment" we wrote off down to $0, BTW.
Any of those pining for widebody cargo flying around Asia got a read on this?
So another airline we 'ahem do business with is growing a portion of its operations by 100% while our fleet continues its relentless decline. Darn, did not mean to say it that way, I mean "continues to grow younger as we retire our oldest airplanes."
How about a scope section that reads, "Delta Air Lines mainline pilots are contracted to crew 2,800,000 aircraft block hours yearly and will be paid for these services. Since you don't care who's name is on the side of the airplane, we don't either." Just kidding, I know code share is good for us & this is a good partnership. Just wish we'd stop outsourcing, we're going to end up sending Capt. Carl to school on a Douglas product if we keep this up.
Could be said that we saved AirTran, when we out bid them for MidWest. Another "investment" we wrote off down to $0, BTW.
Any of those pining for widebody cargo flying around Asia got a read on this?
China Southern Airlines - the largest airline in The People's Republic of China - will become the newest member of SkyTeam Cargo this fall. The announcement was made Tuesday during the fourth annual IATA Cargo Symposium in Vancouver.
“This move into SkyTeam Cargo exemplifies the vitality of China’s air cargo industry, following its passenger transportation business and marks an important step forward toward the internationalization of the Chinese civil aviation industry,” said Luo Laijun, s.v.p-Cargo for China Southern.
China Southern Cargo operates two Boeing 747-400 freighters and two Boeing 777-200 freighters, and will have up to eight freighters by the end of 2011.
China Southern freighters fly from Shanghai Pudong International Airport to Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Chicago. In the future, the cargo carrier plans to expand service from mainland China to Vienna, New York, and Dallas, as well as other major destinations throughout Europe and North America.
SkyTeam Cargo was founded in 2000 and is the world’s leading air cargo alliance. The seven partners: Aeromexico Cargo, Air France Cargo, Alitalia Cargo, Czech Airlines Cargo, Delta Cargo, KLM Cargo and Korean Air Cargo, offer more than 10,000 cargo flights a day to more than 130 countries.
“This move into SkyTeam Cargo exemplifies the vitality of China’s air cargo industry, following its passenger transportation business and marks an important step forward toward the internationalization of the Chinese civil aviation industry,” said Luo Laijun, s.v.p-Cargo for China Southern.
China Southern Cargo operates two Boeing 747-400 freighters and two Boeing 777-200 freighters, and will have up to eight freighters by the end of 2011.
China Southern freighters fly from Shanghai Pudong International Airport to Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Chicago. In the future, the cargo carrier plans to expand service from mainland China to Vienna, New York, and Dallas, as well as other major destinations throughout Europe and North America.
SkyTeam Cargo was founded in 2000 and is the world’s leading air cargo alliance. The seven partners: Aeromexico Cargo, Air France Cargo, Alitalia Cargo, Czech Airlines Cargo, Delta Cargo, KLM Cargo and Korean Air Cargo, offer more than 10,000 cargo flights a day to more than 130 countries.
How about a scope section that reads, "Delta Air Lines mainline pilots are contracted to crew 2,800,000 aircraft block hours yearly and will be paid for these services. Since you don't care who's name is on the side of the airplane, we don't either." Just kidding, I know code share is good for us & this is a good partnership. Just wish we'd stop outsourcing, we're going to end up sending Capt. Carl to school on a Douglas product if we keep this up.
03-10-2010, 11:53 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
There's no money in dedicated freighters, right? 
03-10-2010, 11:55 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,021
03-10-2010, 11:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
03-10-2010, 11:58 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
This is where the difference in procedures come in. At NWA we were always released to the max gross weight unless there was a limiting factor that would reduce that number i.e. climb limit, fltplan limit, landing limit, runway limit etc. We have a preliminary MGL that tells us what weighs we are good for runways that are being used which will go over the Max gross takeoff weight. For this flight we could take off at above max gross weight according to the preliminary MGL. Our final MGL comes to us after push back while we are taxing out unlike the procedures that we do now and do not push until that is recieived and loaded. So that is when we discoverd that load had reduced our max gross 5000lbs. Had we known at the gate we would have not pushed until problem resoved. Upon query about the reduction, we were told that is was a pad for slop. Well that was not good enough for the captain who proceded to go back to the gate and had nonrevs put on. This was a flt to NRT. We operate alot at max gross wt which is usually max structural weight. No big deal but my concern is are they doing that on all airplanes and how many passengers, cargo , and nonrevs are being left behind with weigh capacity that is not being used. Probabl;y not a big dEAl domestically because not to many flts are near max gross.
Now that we get the Final MGL before push this shoUld not happen or can be questioned.
Now that we get the Final MGL before push this shoUld not happen or can be questioned.
And there you have it... I figured it had to do with still using MGL and someone in load planning trying to treat it like awabs (2 different logics- sounds like they were trying to have a "pad" believing it was the same thing as "tolerance" on AWABS.... it's not).
Nice catch on the CA's part once the uplink was done- situations like this will be nipped once the change over to one system is complete. Especially since you don't block out until you have numbers...
03-10-2010, 12:00 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
Yes it happened. When is the last time you have asked the gate agent what the max gross they are releasing your flight for. We have discovered that DAL operated a little different than NWA in that 870,000 means 865,000 and they restrict TO that weight vs the max therefore leaving behind 5000lbs of capacity. Well we turned around and went back to the gate and put the nonrevs on because we could carry them. In our opinion, just sloppy management of numbers that gives dispatch the ability of not being correct because we coud not get a good answer as to why they were doing this. So I was there and don't tell me what we did or did not do. It was grand. Not many captians have the cahunas to do this. I would name him but have to protect him because of the company spies on here. It has been our history at NWA not to leave nonrevs at the gate if we have empty seats, and we watch the weight restricitons very close. Had to be that way at our operation. Shocked at the DAL operation of leaving nonrevs behind.
03-10-2010, 12:02 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Had we known at the gate we would have not pushed until problem resoved. Upon query about the reduction, we were told that is was a pad for slop. Well that was not good enough for the captain who proceded to go back to the gate and had nonrevs put on. This was a flt to NRT. We operate alot at max gross wt which is usually max structural weight. No big deal but my concern is are they doing that on all airplanes and how many passengers, cargo , and nonrevs are being left behind with weigh capacity that is not being used. Probabl;y not a big dEAl domestically because not to many flts are near max gross.
Now that we get the Final MGL before push this shoUld not happen or can be questioned.
Now that we get the Final MGL before push this shoUld not happen or can be questioned.
I'm still a little fuzzy on why it wasn't discovered until you were taxiing. And like I said before, going back to get nonrevs is gutsy. I can see opening the door, but actually taxiing back is a different thing altogether. Besides... 5000 lbs on a 700,000 airplane??? There is that much dust in the cockpit.
But then again, that FAA estimate of 200 lbs per passenger is pretty accurate, right?
03-10-2010, 12:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: west coast wannabe
Posts: 815
Weight critical flights have been a hot topic for us fDAL for a while. Read the last "Climb and Maintain", and you'll find the article reprinted that talked about how the heck are they leaving 60+ seats open in a 7ER coming from CAI to JFK. Eitherway, nobody likes it, it's the Captain's call to delay a flight, but someone may ask questions later.
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