Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-08-2010, 08:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
For your info 3 copies of ther release is 3 pages of paper or maybe 6 pages of paper, Every thing else is one copy. So plz try to post accurate information. I use my release probably 10-15 times a flt as well as writing down all important info about the flt on it. Sorry I might be involved in my flight to the point of want to have my own release. DIfference in culture. I guess the guy in the right seat is just a gear jerker and radio operator as he has no brain until he is a captain.
In my 2 short years at DAL, I've never had any CA hord the paperwork and NO, I'm not just a mindless gerk jerker. Remember, one person is flying, the other is monitoring and checking. You both shouldn't be headsdown looking at paperwork at the same time.
I understand you guys are going through some growing pains with the new way to operate. By all means, make suggestions if you know a better way of doing things. The company has done its best job to capture best practices whenever possible. Unfortunately, some of the infrastructure and technology has meant some regression on your side. That should change when DAL gets up to speed.
Seriously, if we're *****ing about one versus two copies of paperwork, this merger was a huge success. We have other bigger fish to fry.
03-08-2010, 08:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
I know. Been there and done that. I've used worldflight at my previous carrier (with identical procedures and MGL and such) and literally grew up around it. I cannot even count how many times I've been on NWA jumpseats on top of that.
Change sucks... I know. Hopefully this is just your way of dealing with it.
I'm trying to tell you that it's 1. not the end of the world, 2. FPS is a very good system, and 3. Are you really getting that upset about 1 sheet of paper?
Change sucks... I know. Hopefully this is just your way of dealing with it.
I'm trying to tell you that it's 1. not the end of the world, 2. FPS is a very good system, and 3. Are you really getting that upset about 1 sheet of paper?
Does not mean that you are right or we are right, there are 100 ways to skin a cat some more efficient than others ,but the cat still gets skinned.
03-08-2010, 08:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
[never mind duplicat post
03-08-2010, 08:24 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
No not all that upset, but do like to have a good system of checks and balances. Many times on international flights we look at the release when asked questions from atc and it is nice to have your own release to look at to verify , answer, and confirm what is need to respond without having to guess if the other guy answered right. Just a nice system of check and balances. Is it necessary--no.. Is it nice to have -yes. Will I be printing 1 for me when we go under the new system_yes. If you guys were adopting our way of doing things we would be hearing how messed up our system is, I am sure of it ,so ,That's just the way these things go.
Does not mean that you are right or we are right, there are 100 ways to skin a cat some more efficient than others ,but the cat still gets skinned.
Does not mean that you are right or we are right, there are 100 ways to skin a cat some more efficient than others ,but the cat still gets skinned.
1. I love worldflight. It's a great flight planning program.
2. I flew with one of the guys that battled out the selection between the 2 dispatch software. One of the sticking points was actually the amount of wasted paper with the 3 copies of the FDRA+route+fuel/times. Other than that it was a wash between the 2. All the same info is there.
3. Trust me... it's a wash between the 2 programs. The writing down the clearance thing... you're a big boy, you can figure out how to do that without printing out 2 massive copies of the entire release.
4. BLLAHHHH BLLAHHHH BLLAHHHHH!!!!
I'm an FSU guy myself, but... heres pictures of college chicks to get this thread back on track:
03-08-2010, 08:35 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
1. I love worldflight. It's a great flight planning program.
2. I flew with one of the guys that battled out the selection between the 2 dispatch software. One of the sticking points was actually the amount of wasted paper with the 3 copies of the FDRA+route+fuel/times. Other than that it was a wash between the 2. All the same info is there.
3. Trust me... it's a wash between the 2 programs. The writing down the clearance thing... you're a big boy, you can figure out how to do that without printing out 2 massive copies of the entire release.
4. BLLAHHHH BLLAHHHH BLLAHHHHH!!!!
2. I flew with one of the guys that battled out the selection between the 2 dispatch software. One of the sticking points was actually the amount of wasted paper with the 3 copies of the FDRA+route+fuel/times. Other than that it was a wash between the 2. All the same info is there.
3. Trust me... it's a wash between the 2 programs. The writing down the clearance thing... you're a big boy, you can figure out how to do that without printing out 2 massive copies of the entire release.
4. BLLAHHHH BLLAHHHH BLLAHHHHH!!!!
03-08-2010, 08:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,016
To us the way things are now is 1 step forward and 2 steps backward but that is what we have to do. So we do it. The incredible part of the whole thing is how we are told to shut up and sit down all the way thru the chain of command starting with the high up VPs of flt ops all the way down through the regular line guys on this forum. Bottom line is that, it is the whole pilot's group loss that a more open dialogue is not the case. It is just the culture and not any one person's fault. I only hope that someday things might improve in this arena but I am not going to hold my breath. Until then I will just revert to the all important only 1 PIC this is a captains airline. However I would venture to say no DAL-S captain has taxied back into the gate in ATL when load control decides to have a 5000 pound pad on MTOGW and leave nonreves behind. We did and they could not believe it. Turning the 747-400 around back to the gate and putting the nonrevs on was a beautiful thing. Just a couple of north guys venting--you have no idea!!!!!!!!!!!!
03-08-2010, 08:53 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,902
03-08-2010, 09:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
There's a difference. When you were a new hire, you were going to fly with captains that had been using the system for years. We have two crew members up there that are clueless as to how the system works with no one to show us how to do it right. This applies to everything. As a new hire, you could ask your captains about anything. We couldn't do that because none of us knew anything abou the Delta system. That is why the TWG notepads were put created. Two releases is a nice thing to have. It keeps both pilots in the loop. Hopefully this gets changed.
03-08-2010, 11:01 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 320A
Posts: 77
Well I'm a DN guy who's been using the AWABS for two days now, and it's been interesting. I like the flexibility it provides for takeoff as it gives you various flap/thrust options that Worldflight didn't offer. On the other hand, landing data leaves a bit to be desired.
We were descending into a podunk airport with lousy weather the other night, and the only precision approach available was 180 degrees and 10 knots opposite the prevailing winds. The runway was short, so we had to do some hasty digging in some unfamiliar books while on the descent to see if we were Ok. We figured it out (being DL professionals, and what not
) but I'm gonna miss typing the runway and winds into the ACARS and then getting a full analysis back within a minute or so.
We were descending into a podunk airport with lousy weather the other night, and the only precision approach available was 180 degrees and 10 knots opposite the prevailing winds. The runway was short, so we had to do some hasty digging in some unfamiliar books while on the descent to see if we were Ok. We figured it out (being DL professionals, and what not
) but I'm gonna miss typing the runway and winds into the ACARS and then getting a full analysis back within a minute or so.
03-08-2010, 11:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 737n/FO
Posts: 667
For your info 3 copies of ther release is 3 pages of paper or maybe 6 pages of paper, Every thing else is one copy. So plz try to post accurate information. I use my release probably 10-15 times a flt as well as writing down all important info about the flt on it. Sorry I might be involved in my flight to the point of want to have my own release. DIfference in culture. I guess the guy in the right seat is just a gear jerker and radio operator as he has no brain until he is a captain.
Let's not go overboard with the reply. Not having my own copy of the release doesn't mean I don't know what's going on. We are used to sharing one copy of everything - it stays in the middle where both guys can look at it and reference as necessary - no matter which one of us is the pilot flying. If there is something I need/want I make notes on a piece of paper. Also, most of the captains I fly with make their own little matrix (Souls on board, min fuel for T.O., etc.). We're not trying to put down your old system - don't attack all the Delta FOs for our system.
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