Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-08-2010, 03:45 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Look at the howgozit section of the flight plan. Lots of info there for you!
03-08-2010, 03:46 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
The DC-9 has no paper printout from the acars, nuf said. We also navigate by VOR/airways, so usually both pilots look at their map (remember those) and write down radials/freqs on the flight plan to ease the workload in a 40 year old aircraft that doesn't level off without operator input.
I have many years in the "9" and the little things make it a lot more manageable.
I have many years in the "9" and the little things make it a lot more manageable.
No printers are being installed for AWABS?
03-08-2010, 03:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
The DC-9 has no paper printout from the acars, nuf said. We also navigate by VOR/airways, so usually both pilots look at their map (remember those) and write down radials/freqs on the flight plan to ease the workload in a 40 year old aircraft that doesn't level off without operator input.
I have many years in the "9" and the little things make it a lot more manageable.
I have many years in the "9" and the little things make it a lot more manageable.
03-08-2010, 03:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
So, I just finished my introductory flying on the -9 with AWABS and FPS. Three words: OH! MY! GOD!
You south guys have no idea how much simpler it can be to get an airplane out of the chocks and into the air. I'll leave it at that. It is what it is.
For the guys who have not yet had the pleasure, you will stumble through it. The biggest inconvenience is the one piece of paper thing. You will not have any info in front of you. That's workable, but it also means you do not have a piece of paper to write on (like taxi instructions, new clearances, etc). You either need to buy a pad of paper to carry in your bag or remember to grab some off the printer on your way down the jetway.
Learning curve = huge.
You south guys have no idea how much simpler it can be to get an airplane out of the chocks and into the air. I'll leave it at that. It is what it is.
For the guys who have not yet had the pleasure, you will stumble through it. The biggest inconvenience is the one piece of paper thing. You will not have any info in front of you. That's workable, but it also means you do not have a piece of paper to write on (like taxi instructions, new clearances, etc). You either need to buy a pad of paper to carry in your bag or remember to grab some off the printer on your way down the jetway.
Learning curve = huge.
In the MD88, it is customary to print the PDC and place it on the center pedestal. No writing involved. Problem solved.
When we taxi, the Copilot punches it into the FMS and uses a / for a hold short of. Again, no writing necessary. Every in the cockpit can read it. Problem solved.
And I hear the NWA guys complaining all the time about the AWABS. What is so hard about it? I'm being serious, I want to know.
Finally, I've been to three of your bases. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, can you guys get some paper that has fold perforations in it? It is extremely annoying and ridiculous when the gate agent hands you 10 feet of continous rolled paper all wadded up.
03-08-2010, 03:52 PM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
I'll be the first to complain about stuff at Delta like i-crew, the cap, reserve, etc., but the paperwork stuff is great. Sure you could put some stuff in an easier to find place, but once you figure out where it's at, it's not a problem. I've worked at a few airlines and the Delta stuff is by far better than any of the other places. The old NWA stuff may have been better, but the Delta stuff is good. Sharing the flight plan is not anything to worry about and just hit the slew button on the printer twice, tear, and fold for a perfect little scratch pad.
03-08-2010, 03:55 PM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
What do you DALn guys do with your 10 foot roll of paper that has to be wadded up instead of folded up?
03-08-2010, 03:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
Maybe one more S guy can explain to us where to find scratch paper or
how the printer works
I understand it can work, an to be fair I haven't tried the new fps system yet. But what's the big deal with each guy having a copy of
the release/flightplan/whatever you want to call it.
I've done it both ways also, and it's really nice to each have your own copy. Sorta takes the random CA doing the paperwork his way out of the equation. In the past I've seen CA's (rare exceptions) that put all the paperwork on their side out of reach. At least with my copy of the release I've got
the important stuff available.
I know, I know. Your way is better and we will see the light eventually. This is just a little venting at the never ending changes. I'm just saying, what's wrong with an extra copy???
PS I will like not having various ammendments/flightplans coming through at
the 11th hour. See, not all change is bad
how the printer works
I understand it can work, an to be fair I haven't tried the new fps system yet. But what's the big deal with each guy having a copy of
the release/flightplan/whatever you want to call it.
I've done it both ways also, and it's really nice to each have your own copy. Sorta takes the random CA doing the paperwork his way out of the equation. In the past I've seen CA's (rare exceptions) that put all the paperwork on their side out of reach. At least with my copy of the release I've got
the important stuff available.
I know, I know. Your way is better and we will see the light eventually. This is just a little venting at the never ending changes. I'm just saying, what's wrong with an extra copy???
PS I will like not having various ammendments/flightplans coming through at
the 11th hour. See, not all change is bad
03-08-2010, 04:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Maybe one more S guy can explain to us where to find scratch paper or
how the printer works
I understand it can work, an to be fair I haven't tried the new fps system yet. But what's the big deal with each guy having a copy of
the release/flightplan/whatever you want to call it.
I've done it both ways also, and it's really nice to each have your own copy. Sorta takes the random CA doing the paperwork his way out of the equation. In the past I've seen CA's (rare exceptions) that put all the paperwork on their side out of reach. At least with my copy of the release I've got
the important stuff available.
I know, I know. Your way is better and we will see the light eventually. This is just a little venting at the never ending changes. I'm just saying, what's wrong with an extra copy???
PS I will like not having various ammendments/flightplans coming through at
the 11th hour. See, not all change is bad
how the printer works
I understand it can work, an to be fair I haven't tried the new fps system yet. But what's the big deal with each guy having a copy of
the release/flightplan/whatever you want to call it.
I've done it both ways also, and it's really nice to each have your own copy. Sorta takes the random CA doing the paperwork his way out of the equation. In the past I've seen CA's (rare exceptions) that put all the paperwork on their side out of reach. At least with my copy of the release I've got
the important stuff available.
I know, I know. Your way is better and we will see the light eventually. This is just a little venting at the never ending changes. I'm just saying, what's wrong with an extra copy???
PS I will like not having various ammendments/flightplans coming through at
the 11th hour. See, not all change is bad
03-08-2010, 04:05 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Main difference is that a block holder could never get a reserve line. The only way I would see this as better is if it created more jobs. It seemed to work well because most guys that bid a block wanted a block and did not want to be on reserve and those guys that wanted more pay and would settle for reserve would bid reserve although some senior inbase guys would bid reserve and never fly. Don't know which is better, probably the way it is now in that it gives everyone more options.
As far as differing form reserve you could choose to stay home on call and not have to go t0o base unless they gave you a trip. Not much different than what we have now with the exception of SC.
Probably a wash. Just throwing out things to think about in that some combination of concepts might improve what we have.
As far as differing form reserve you could choose to stay home on call and not have to go t0o base unless they gave you a trip. Not much different than what we have now with the exception of SC.
Probably a wash. Just throwing out things to think about in that some combination of concepts might improve what we have.
03-08-2010, 04:08 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Maybe one more S guy can explain to us where to find scratch paper or
how the printer works
I understand it can work, an to be fair I haven't tried the new fps system yet. But what's the big deal with each guy having a copy of
the release/flightplan/whatever you want to call it.
I've done it both ways also, and it's really nice to each have your own copy. Sorta takes the random CA doing the paperwork his way out of the equation. In the past I've seen CA's (rare exceptions) that put all the paperwork on their side out of reach. At least with my copy of the release I've got
the important stuff available.
I know, I know. Your way is better and we will see the light eventually. This is just a little venting at the never ending changes. I'm just saying, what's wrong with an extra copy???
PS I will like not having various ammendments/flightplans coming through at
the 11th hour. See, not all change is bad
how the printer works
I understand it can work, an to be fair I haven't tried the new fps system yet. But what's the big deal with each guy having a copy of
the release/flightplan/whatever you want to call it.
I've done it both ways also, and it's really nice to each have your own copy. Sorta takes the random CA doing the paperwork his way out of the equation. In the past I've seen CA's (rare exceptions) that put all the paperwork on their side out of reach. At least with my copy of the release I've got
the important stuff available.
I know, I know. Your way is better and we will see the light eventually. This is just a little venting at the never ending changes. I'm just saying, what's wrong with an extra copy???
PS I will like not having various ammendments/flightplans coming through at
the 11th hour. See, not all change is bad
I wouldn't say either is better, honestly. Like I said.. in the end it is a wash.
As far as the CA that hides the paperwork, that'll get nipped in the bud very quick!
Nothing is wrong with the extra copy- honestly when you look at the way our flight plan section is set up, it's not very efficient to print out 3 copies. Also.. the same argument could be made in the other direction (which is what was made when the determination of which release system to use)-- why is it necessary to have 3 copies?
I know change sucks... just try to find stuff that really needs to be changed (like our manuals and going to APAs) to complain about.
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