Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-07-2010, 08:12 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
03-07-2010, 09:10 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: FO CRJ-200
Posts: 75
03-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
03-07-2010, 10:37 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
Technically I do not think you are correct in saying an IA/IAWC is only a pro-offer of the trip. It IS your trip unless you can come up with a valid reason why you will not be legal or cannot make the sign in. When Scheduling Calls lists some of the valid reasons that could be used such as having consumed alcohol, not adequately rested, lack of childcare etc. If necessary call your CP.
Denny
Denny
You are 100% on the money! A few years ago I was getting IA'd out the wazoo. I just wouldn't answer my phone, which to all the guys complaining about the IAs totally solved the problem.
One day however, I answered my cellphone pulling into my driveway on a friday afternoon. It was crew scheduling, as I suspected, but I did not think I would have an issue since I lived in SAN and was flying out of SLC. Well, they had an IA for me. I responded as always, when I did not want to fly an IA that "I live in SAN and can't get to SLC for thr IA." Well the scheduler was not to be put off, and responded "The trip is for tomorrow and it is yours."
Well this was Friday, and I was off Sat and Sun and started 3 weeks of MIL LV on Monday. I can't do it I said. I am leaving the country for three weeks of military on Monday, I said. The scheduler said, Tough ****, you don't have military in until Monday - Its your trip.
I said fine, I just want you to know that I will not be flying this trip and if your goal is to cover this trip you better start calling other guys because I am telling you right now, that I will not be showing up. Scheduler gets PO'd and says OK, but you need to call your CP now and have him call the scheduling supervisor or you are in deep ****. I say, OK no sweat, and call my CP who says "Why dont you just put in for MIL LV?" I respond "Beacuse its my off days and if I put in for MIL LV I am obliged to be on MIL DUTY, Which I am not since these are my two days off before going out of country. Well, to make a long story short (OK Less long) He just says "I am putting you in for MIL LV." I respond "Well I am not drilling this weekend." He says "Don't worry about it." I say "I am not." He says "OK."
Long story short - If you don't want an IA - don't answer your phone - it solves a lot of problems.
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 03-07-2010 at 11:48 PM.
03-08-2010, 04:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: 764 FO
Posts: 228
You know, I was kind of looking at this discussion as if it were some sort of philosophical issue, but your post kind of brings it home. But then again, I was failing to appreciate how this is all simply... just about money. Taking this further, I am now wondering if people want the "HIT" flying because they're not yet comfy with the GS (as Keenster was saying), or whether they like it as some sort of happy trough of overtime flying on which to feast.
What I like about our system is that people that want to pick up overtime, i.e. help the company out while they help themselves (nothing wrong with that, of course) don't get rewarded for keeping the staffing low in advance. Now, these people have to make decisions with the WS/GS system. If they really need/want/plan on/lust after after that flying, they have to commit to a WS, at straight rates. That, of course, removes a potential GS from the pot, and makes GSWC very unlikely. If they don't go sort of "greedy early", and they sit tight, then they and everyone else around them, has the potential for true premium pay with a GS, IA, or even a GSWC at the last minute. The fact everyone gets a shot at a GS, in seniority order, is icing on the cake: it stops the problem we used to have on the South side, with senior people hogging the extra flying.
When that happens, and the company needs us because they are not staffing enough, they cough up 2X pay. When we do the opposite, and try to help them keep the staffing nice and tight, we don't get rewarded with premium flying. The habit is not fed. The incentives reward having a normal schedule, and stepping up only when the company hurts, at a fair premium rate.
What's not to like?
If this is a philosophical discussion (and I don't think it is), then it's a philosophical discussion that pits those who routinely want more flying, and don't like the straight rates, vs. those that want to pick up the occasional flying at premium rates. I'm in the second camp. Seems a little more "pilot-oriented", and "union-like". Sounds a little more, dare I say it... "militant".
***Just to be clear, when I say "this discussion", I'm not specifically referring to what Nu and Keenster are saying, but to the general, recurring discussion about the "HIT" flying vs. GS that's been going and going for some period of time.
What I like about our system is that people that want to pick up overtime, i.e. help the company out while they help themselves (nothing wrong with that, of course) don't get rewarded for keeping the staffing low in advance. Now, these people have to make decisions with the WS/GS system. If they really need/want/plan on/lust after after that flying, they have to commit to a WS, at straight rates. That, of course, removes a potential GS from the pot, and makes GSWC very unlikely. If they don't go sort of "greedy early", and they sit tight, then they and everyone else around them, has the potential for true premium pay with a GS, IA, or even a GSWC at the last minute. The fact everyone gets a shot at a GS, in seniority order, is icing on the cake: it stops the problem we used to have on the South side, with senior people hogging the extra flying.
When that happens, and the company needs us because they are not staffing enough, they cough up 2X pay. When we do the opposite, and try to help them keep the staffing nice and tight, we don't get rewarded with premium flying. The habit is not fed. The incentives reward having a normal schedule, and stepping up only when the company hurts, at a fair premium rate.
What's not to like?
If this is a philosophical discussion (and I don't think it is), then it's a philosophical discussion that pits those who routinely want more flying, and don't like the straight rates, vs. those that want to pick up the occasional flying at premium rates. I'm in the second camp. Seems a little more "pilot-oriented", and "union-like". Sounds a little more, dare I say it... "militant".
***Just to be clear, when I say "this discussion", I'm not specifically referring to what Nu and Keenster are saying, but to the general, recurring discussion about the "HIT" flying vs. GS that's been going and going for some period of time.
It was very easy to go over 80 at NWA because of the staffing. Geee! Even on reserve with CQ as pay only would take you into 85+.
I always thought it had a huge effect on staffing, even when we had 700+ guys on furlough, I regularly flew with guys that were approaching 95+ hours, to me, that's wrong. As I stated in my previous post, history speaks for itself regarding the effect it had on nwa hiring and staffing. I'm willing to bet the company will even propose to replace the GS with the HIT flying in 2012.
03-08-2010, 05:11 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
I never answer the phone for a GS call or an IA call. They will always leave a message letting you know what the trip is. Two seconds later you just listen to the message and call them back if it is a trip worth taking. If you don't like it, don't call back. However, I did that once awhile back and never called them back for an IA because it wasn't a good one. I got home and my wife told me that they had called the house (I've since removed the house number). The scheduler told my wife that they had a trip for me and I was "on the hook" for it and was suppose to call them back when I got home. I never did, and the trip was covered about 20 minutes later by someone else. So take your home number off the contact list or they will call and hassle your wife when they are having no luck covering a trip. It will also keep your wife from getting a recorded message from Steve Dickson at 4AM about an IROP.
03-08-2010, 05:18 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
03-08-2010, 05:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
03-08-2010, 05:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
It was very easy to go over 80 at NWA because of the staffing. Geee! Even on reserve with CQ as pay only would take you into 85+.
I always thought it had a huge effect on staffing, even when we had 700+ guys on furlough, I regularly flew with guys that were approaching 95+ hours, to me, that's wrong. As I stated in my previous post, history speaks for itself regarding the effect it had on nwa hiring and staffing. I'm willing to bet the company will even propose to replace the GS with the HIT flying in 2012.
I always thought it had a huge effect on staffing, even when we had 700+ guys on furlough, I regularly flew with guys that were approaching 95+ hours, to me, that's wrong. As I stated in my previous post, history speaks for itself regarding the effect it had on nwa hiring and staffing. I'm willing to bet the company will even propose to replace the GS with the HIT flying in 2012.
Keep in mind that one of the (few) benefits of this merger WRT staffing was supposed to be that we would need more pilots under South workrules. That's the kind of thing that helps offset aircraft retirements, etc. That's the kind of thing that might lead to hiring. Which runs contrary to the interests of the addicts. If they were to prevail, and we went to a North model of staffing, I think this merger would get a lot less comfortable...
Thanks again for brininging a little clarity to the issue.
03-08-2010, 06:38 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
What I like about our system is that people that want to pick up overtime, i.e. help the company out while they help themselves (nothing wrong with that, of course) don't get rewarded for keeping the staffing low in advance. Now, these people have to make decisions with the WS/GS system. If they really need/want/plan on/lust after after that flying, they have to commit to a WS, at straight rates. That, of course, removes a potential GS from the pot, and makes GSWC very unlikely. If they don't go sort of "greedy early", and they sit tight, then they and everyone else around them, has the potential for true premium pay with a GS, IA, or even a GSWC at the last minute. The fact everyone gets a shot at a GS, in seniority order, is icing on the cake: it stops the problem we used to have on the South side, with senior people hogging the extra flying.
When that happens, and the company needs us because they are not staffing enough, they cough up 2X pay. When we do the opposite, and try to help them keep the staffing nice and tight, we don't get rewarded with premium flying. The habit is not fed. The incentives reward having a normal schedule, and stepping up only when the company hurts, at a fair premium rate.
What's not to like?
When that happens, and the company needs us because they are not staffing enough, they cough up 2X pay. When we do the opposite, and try to help them keep the staffing nice and tight, we don't get rewarded with premium flying. The habit is not fed. The incentives reward having a normal schedule, and stepping up only when the company hurts, at a fair premium rate.
What's not to like?
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