80ktsClamp

I'll burn the house down for 76+1, any extra pound, or any extra jet. Just sayin...

keenster

Sat,
Based on the history of the 2 carriers, North guys are in general more militant towards management than the south guys. At every turn of the wheel we had to watch our backs and fight with management. We have been on strike a few times in the past. I don't think that you will find a better group of guys when the ball drops to take a stand with management. Probably, we will be much more ready that the south group because it is in our nature and what we grew up with. It seems to me that you need some north blood in some of these MECs because as a newbie looking in now, I see alot of cushy nice talk when it comes to the company. Fine, if that works, but I bet money that things are going to get uglier rather that prettier in the future and they will test us as a group. We better get off the can and draw a line in the sand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Being a senior guy I am just as concerned about scope as the most junior guy because the bottom line is where does it stop and what will this airline look like in ten years. I hope they are mainline builders and not mainline out sourcers. Scope concerns every single guy here and if someone does not think so he has his head in the sand or another place that smells bad.(Parking the 747-200s is a good example of how the senior guys here might look at how scope could affect them.) I can't tell you how every guy will vote but I do know the general mood of the senior guys over here and if needed they will take a stand for scope. As you well know, it is not the average line pilot you need to worry about, it is the elected reps and what they do. I want to know why we are not hearing anything from the union on this. I am a proponent of Mem RAT for this very reason. I am not so trusting of our union reps. Good luck to us all.

satchip

What happens when they want to put 12 BE seats in a 195 or something similar and it comes to 96 seats? Will you go to war over that? How many would give that in return for a healthy bump at the top?

buzzpat

Nothing to add, just wanted to pimp my new avatar.

FIIGMO

I am confused why we have to have a 76+ a/c Capt. make $x amount more or less than a certain FO on the pay scale. (I am all for maximum pay but lets get the flying first under the best terms possible) If the market rate of the aircraft is $x then we would be better to go to the company and say we will fly it for $x plus... not tie it to an FO rate that may be way above market rate. Now as a 10 year RJ Captain before I got to Delta making above 100K I know that aircraft can support a pretty good pay rate. I say just get them on the property and start raising the floor. Just make the 76+ a/c the entry equipment at better than market rates and open domiciles where pilots will want to fly them and have aggressive yearly increases. Name the city and guys will fly it for market rates rather than commute. DFW, MCO, CVG, DEN, SAN, SBA etc........

Get them on the property first. If a pilot wants to fly it based in XXX great, if not then it goes to the next junior pilot. Find the trade offs that are acceptable and capture the flying. JMHO.

shiznit

I'm with all of the posters about not one more seat/pound.

The real questions:
1. Would our Negotiations Committee bring a TA to the MEC with "a scope giveaway for a pay raise?" (My guess no.)

2. Would the MEC send a TA brought by the NC with "a scope giveaway for a pay raise" to the membership for ratification? (Again, my guess is no.)

3. Would the membership sign off on "a scope giveaway for a pay raise" knowing how that turned out last time? (My guess, not a chance.)

If the MEC is going to represent the wants/desires of the Membership in its "direction to the Neg. Comm.", I think that it is a non-starter and a scope sale (on either RJ/JV/Codeshare) is extremely unlikely.

***Offically (per RLA regulations) every section is requied to be "on the table" but in reality Section 1 is not even worth spending time on for the Company(if they are looking for relief of any kind).

We need to keep making as much headway as possible on LOA's, so that we have less to "ask for" during the amendable period.

Section 6 negotiations are pretty much a joke anyway, the system is completely broken....If PCL pilots can't get a release after 5 YEARS and only looking for 10-15% improvements, what can we realistically expect to get in the way of "help with negotiations" from the NMB.........I'm just sayin'.....

Scoop

That would have to be a mainline aircraft. Look, I don't think we should spend a lot of effort trying to recapture 70 seat flying - that ship has sailed, but lets hold the line where it is now. We really need to look forward - if the company wants to operate a 96 seat jet with 12 First or BE seats great, but it will be flown by DAL pilots IAW our current contract.
I realize the economics on some of the smaller jets favor DCI but two things are often overlooked:
1. DCI would be losing money on them also if it wasn't for fee for departure, so saying DAL would lose money operating them seems to be at least a partially hollow argument.
2. Jet Blue is operating 100 seat jets at mainline without premium seating at rates very close to our DC-9 rates. If our mangement is as good as a lot of guys on this forum think they are- we should at least be able to match them with premium seating and everything else that comes with the worlds largest network.

Don't forget guys a lot of mainline personnel service DCI flights. Contract employees are contract employees, with similar costs, for mainline and DCI, ie cleaners, mechanics etc.

One final point on Scope for pay-rates. Pay rates come and go - when was the last time Scope moved in our favor?

With all of that said Scope is just one issue among many that are all very important to DAL Pilots. Yes, I think it is one of, if not, the most important issue, but I still want our Reps to look at everything, fight management when appropriate, and work with management when that is appropriate.

Scoop

satchip

I posted the previous one before I read yours. Gosh I hope you're right. I bet there are some "deadzoners" on the North side too. Their self interests may not lie with scope protection. They may lie with increases in pay and DC. After all the back side of the curve is rapidly approaching.

I'll trust what you say but forgive me for being a little fired up about this. I hate the fact that my continued employment during my peak earning years is in the hands of others whose interests may not lie with mine.

satchip

Another thing to watch out for. I commuted on a new 900 with BE seats. It was nice. The coach seats seemed to have more room than the back of a 757. I know I was more comfortable. The company doesn't have to have new 100 seaters if they can use these 900s.

keenster

Just remember, Every guy at this airline was a newhire and junior at one time and understands what it was like to worry about being furloughed. It has crossed everyones minds a few times. Yes there are those with the golden careers that may not have worried much but they are in the minority. You will always have the few that are greedy and self serving, but the majority of guys will do the right thing. It is always a tough battle when it comes to matters that concern voting the wallet.

I'm glad you are fired up, keep it up and you have nothing to be forgiven for. I have your same concern that our futures are in the hands of a few and we should always be cautious and vigilant.