Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-26-2010, 11:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
As many have stated DAL needs to recognize that it is in their best interest to in-source. We do not need to convince them nor pay the price for them.
As I have stated, the cost would be great. Not because of the "cost" of the operation, but the price quoted to us by the Car Salesman; "Delta Management."
In the current context, it would probably be a car we would walk away from. It does not mean we would not return a few weeks later to see if the salesman realized the errors of his way, it just means that there may be better deals for that amount of capital.
I agree that "someday" it will be in DAL's best interest to in-source. That is why for now: Not one more pound, seat nor jet," makes sense. I want all of the jets here too, we just need to find a way to do it, and not cost this career any more!
Make sense?
As I have stated, the cost would be great. Not because of the "cost" of the operation, but the price quoted to us by the Car Salesman; "Delta Management."
In the current context, it would probably be a car we would walk away from. It does not mean we would not return a few weeks later to see if the salesman realized the errors of his way, it just means that there may be better deals for that amount of capital.
I agree that "someday" it will be in DAL's best interest to in-source. That is why for now: Not one more pound, seat nor jet," makes sense. I want all of the jets here too, we just need to find a way to do it, and not cost this career any more!
Make sense?
NOT ONE MORE POUND, SEAT NOR JET!!!!!!
02-26-2010, 12:10 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 42
This whole 100seater issue seems to be gaining alot of steam. The Republic issue has obviously brought it front and center after dropping off the front burner since JAL came forth and now has dropped off(for the moment). What is noticeably absent and is nothing truthfully unexpected is the FACT that DALPA will not address this issue properly. Yes, the contract is not due to start negotiations till around 2012, but we know it's coming, I repeat we know the 100 seater is coming. Why do we not see DALPA or ALPA positioning themselves or developing a mode of operation to handle this. Each of you pay for ALPA to properly represent you in a manner suitable to allow you to safely execute your job and to protect your career. I believe someone gave us all a heads up many months ago that the 100 seater may/may not already be being discussed behind closed doors. I honestly believe there was a reason that was done. Start using our noggins for something other than a hat rack(not pro hat by the way). Scope should be nailed down now and soon. This would be a LOA worthy of reading when it does not allow one more seat or one more plane or one more pound to DCI and should in no manner be at cost to us. These are our jobs that we are flying on the 88, -800, 319/20, and DC9 that will be immediately lost to a 100 seater aircraft. And for you senior guys that think it doesn't affect you, wrong, its a trickle down from the bottom up. Your tuesday start with a thursday finish gone, less lines. Your Christmas vacation, now earlier september, less vacations needed to award and so forth. None of this is new to any of you, but what is new is that very quickly and efficiently via a DCI, Joint Ventures, etc...Delta is becoming an airline in "theory", ie... Delta name but everything could someday be flown by a contractor. Where does this leave you? Do you want to find out? I don't. Make your Union speak for you and TO YOU NOW ABOUT WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO ABOUT IT.
02-26-2010, 12:16 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
This whole 100seater issue seems to be gaining alot of steam. The Republic issue has obviously brought it front and center after dropping off the front burner since JAL came forth and now has dropped off(for the moment). What is noticeably absent and is nothing truthfully unexpected is the FACT that DALPA will not address this issue properly. Yes, the contract is not due to start negotiations till around 2012, but we know it's coming, I repeat we know the 100 seater is coming. Why do we not see DALPA or ALPA positioning themselves or developing a mode of operation to handle this. Each of you pay for ALPA to properly represent you in a manner suitable to allow you to safely execute your job and to protect your career. I believe someone gave us all a heads up many months ago that the 100 seater may/may not already be being discussed behind closed doors. I honestly believe there was a reason that was done. Start using our noggins for something other than a hat rack(not pro hat by the way). Scope should be nailed down now and soon. This would be a LOA worthy of reading when it does not allow one more seat or one more plane or one more pound to DCI and should in no manner be at cost to us. These are our jobs that we are flying on the 88, -800, 319/20, and DC9 that will be immediately lost to a 100 seater aircraft. And for you senior guys that think it doesn't affect you, wrong, its a trickle down from the bottom up. Your tuesday start with a thursday finish gone, less lines. Your Christmas vacation, now earlier september, less vacations needed to award and so forth. None of this is new to any of you, but what is new is that very quickly and efficiently via a DCI, Joint Ventures, etc...Delta is becoming an airline in "theory", ie... Delta name but everything could someday be flown by a contractor. Where does this leave you? Do you want to find out? I don't. Make your Union speak for you and TO YOU NOW ABOUT WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO ABOUT IT.
+1000000000000 BEST POST I"VE READ IN A WHILE!!
I KNOW I WANNA KNOW THE ANSWER
02-26-2010, 12:24 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
I think, if what we've read today is right, what we need is some new ideas on how to strengthen scope. Something different. Not just artificial caps and limits that one day they'll try and roll back. Something more... something new.
Something that the union could box up and push towards management and that management (and those who hold the purse strings) would look at and gladly take in because it fits their needs in terms of revenue generation and cost. Just don't know what that is.
Something that the union could box up and push towards management and that management (and those who hold the purse strings) would look at and gladly take in because it fits their needs in terms of revenue generation and cost. Just don't know what that is.
Step One: Research modern Corporate and Representational structures. Update our thinking that seniority lists can bridge Corporate Structures and Certificates. Others have done it, but ALPA has not accepted it as possible, yet.
Step Two: Announce ALPA's intention to be an exclusive representative of Delta flying. As contracts expire, require that contracts be renewed with ALPA carriers. This immediately increases ALPA's legitimacy and those who believe they gain at ALPA's expense (is SkyWest & Republic) see the value of the Association and line up to get on board to avoid being shut out.
Step two: Draw D-ALPA's Representational Circle as big and inclusively as can be rightfully justified.
Step Three: Come to management with a common bargaining platform, led by D-ALPA (we are heading this direction already). Be reasonable with our contractual demands. As our current MEC Administration correctly points out, we do better when the Company does better. This might mean status quo at the sub-100 seat level, but hey, it sure beats whipsaw with your carrier here today and gone tomorrow.
Step Four: Restore ALPA's Merger and Fragmentation Policy. Accept that with real career security comes the business of merging disparate seniority lists. There are pragmatic solutions to bidding (which I posted and were liked by both NWA and Delta pilots alike during our merger) which would provide the career protection and advancement that pilots seek.
While this plan is a return to basic unity and unionism, it requires some very new thinking. The concept that D-ALPA can be the exclusive provider of pilot labor within the Delta brand is unbelievable to many, but we need to recognize the ease with which management side steps our scope blockade by simply setting up a new corporate structure. In effect, ALPA needs to respond with "we don't care how you structure your airline, or how you buy your airplanes, if the airplane flies, we operate it - period."
Completely legal, completely old and yet, oh so new. Just my humble opinion on what we need to make our union truly relevant in our profession.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-26-2010 at 12:35 PM.
02-26-2010, 12:30 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Why don't we try basic unionism? Use the leverage created by D-ALPA's legal right to be the exclusive bargaining agent for Delta flying.
Step One: Research modern Corporate and Representational structures. Update our thinking that seniority lists can bridge Corporate Structures and Certificates. Others have done it, but ALPA has not accepted it as possible, yet.
Step Two: Announce ALPA's intention to be an exclusive representative of Delta flying. As contracts expire, require that contracts be renewed with ALPA carriers. This immediately increases ALPA's legitimacy and those who believe they gain at ALPA's expense (is SkyWest & Republic) see the value of the Association and line up to get on board to avoid being shut out.
Step two: Draw D-ALPA's Representational Circle as big and inclusively as can be rightfully justified.
Step Three: Come to management with a common bargaining platform, led by D-ALPA (we are sort of heading this direction already). Be reasonable with our contractual demands. As our current MEC Administration correctly points out, we do better when the Company does better. This means a lot of status quo at the sub-100 seat level, but hey, it sure beats whipsaw with your carrier here today and gone tomorrow.
Step Four: Restore ALPA's Merger and Fragmentation Policy. Accept that with real career security comes the business of merging disparate seniority lists. There are pragmatic solutions to bidding (which I posted and were liked by both NWA and Delta pilots alike during our merger) which would provide the career protection and advancement that pilots seek.
While this plan is a return to basic unity and unionism, it requires some very new thinking. The concept that D-ALPA can be the exclusive provider of pilot labor within the Delta brand is unbelievable to many, but we need to recognize the ease with which management side steps our scope blockade by simply setting up a new corporate structure. In effect, ALPA needs to respond with "we don't care how you structure your airline, or how you buy your airplanes, if the airplane flies, we operate it - period."
Completely legal, completely old and yet, oh so new. Just my humble opinion on what we need to make our union truly relevant in our profession.
Step One: Research modern Corporate and Representational structures. Update our thinking that seniority lists can bridge Corporate Structures and Certificates. Others have done it, but ALPA has not accepted it as possible, yet.
Step Two: Announce ALPA's intention to be an exclusive representative of Delta flying. As contracts expire, require that contracts be renewed with ALPA carriers. This immediately increases ALPA's legitimacy and those who believe they gain at ALPA's expense (is SkyWest & Republic) see the value of the Association and line up to get on board to avoid being shut out.
Step two: Draw D-ALPA's Representational Circle as big and inclusively as can be rightfully justified.
Step Three: Come to management with a common bargaining platform, led by D-ALPA (we are sort of heading this direction already). Be reasonable with our contractual demands. As our current MEC Administration correctly points out, we do better when the Company does better. This means a lot of status quo at the sub-100 seat level, but hey, it sure beats whipsaw with your carrier here today and gone tomorrow.
Step Four: Restore ALPA's Merger and Fragmentation Policy. Accept that with real career security comes the business of merging disparate seniority lists. There are pragmatic solutions to bidding (which I posted and were liked by both NWA and Delta pilots alike during our merger) which would provide the career protection and advancement that pilots seek.
While this plan is a return to basic unity and unionism, it requires some very new thinking. The concept that D-ALPA can be the exclusive provider of pilot labor within the Delta brand is unbelievable to many, but we need to recognize the ease with which management side steps our scope blockade by simply setting up a new corporate structure. In effect, ALPA needs to respond with "we don't care how you structure your airline, or how you buy your airplanes, if the airplane flies, we operate it - period."
Completely legal, completely old and yet, oh so new. Just my humble opinion on what we need to make our union truly relevant in our profession.
I beleive status quo at the sub 100 seat level is acceptable and a wise decision to get that flying in-sourced.
02-26-2010, 12:41 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
SkyTeam seeks to expand, land China Eastern
As SkyTeam looks to grow in emerging markets, the global airline alliance is hoping to add China Eastern Airlines as its newest member, Dow Jones Newswires reported.
“China Eastern has expressed its interest to join an alliance,” Marie-Joseph Male, managing director-SkyTeam, told Dow Jones. “I think we offer the best airlines and network to China Eastern, but it is up to them to decide, of course.”
A China Eastern spokesman said the carrier was in discussions with the SkyTeam, Star Alliance and oneworld, but declined to say if there was a preference toward any one, the article reported.
SkyTeam already boasts a strong foothold in China. Its members include China Southern, China’s biggest airline by revenue, the article said.
Even so, growth is a strategic priority for SkyTeam, which celebrates its 10th anniversary this year, making it the youngest of the three global airline alliances. The alliance has 11 members but is looking to increase that number.
In addition to China Southern, other members include Delta, Air France, KLM, Korean Air, Alitalia, Aeromexico, Aeroflot, Czech Airlines and associate members Air Europa and Kenya Airways. This year, the alliance will add Vietnam Airlines as well as Romania’s Tarom, which will strengthen its position in Eastern Europe.
“We don’t need to be the biggest alliance; we want to be the best,” Marie-Joseph said during an interview at the SkyTeam office in the World Trade Centre at Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport. “We are looking to add quality airlines and quality networks for our customers. We look for complementary – not overlapping – markets and networks, and we want to offer our customers seamless service on convenient hubs in our global network.”
As SkyTeam looks to grow in emerging markets, the global airline alliance is hoping to add China Eastern Airlines as its newest member, Dow Jones Newswires reported.
“China Eastern has expressed its interest to join an alliance,” Marie-Joseph Male, managing director-SkyTeam, told Dow Jones. “I think we offer the best airlines and network to China Eastern, but it is up to them to decide, of course.”
A China Eastern spokesman said the carrier was in discussions with the SkyTeam, Star Alliance and oneworld, but declined to say if there was a preference toward any one, the article reported.
SkyTeam already boasts a strong foothold in China. Its members include China Southern, China’s biggest airline by revenue, the article said.
Even so, growth is a strategic priority for SkyTeam, which celebrates its 10th anniversary this year, making it the youngest of the three global airline alliances. The alliance has 11 members but is looking to increase that number.
In addition to China Southern, other members include Delta, Air France, KLM, Korean Air, Alitalia, Aeromexico, Aeroflot, Czech Airlines and associate members Air Europa and Kenya Airways. This year, the alliance will add Vietnam Airlines as well as Romania’s Tarom, which will strengthen its position in Eastern Europe.
“We don’t need to be the biggest alliance; we want to be the best,” Marie-Joseph said during an interview at the SkyTeam office in the World Trade Centre at Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport. “We are looking to add quality airlines and quality networks for our customers. We look for complementary – not overlapping – markets and networks, and we want to offer our customers seamless service on convenient hubs in our global network.”
02-26-2010, 02:20 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Off subject, the weekly Delta flight ops is out. I guess more on the slot swap next week.
02-26-2010, 02:48 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
maybe i'm not catching the point in this. Are we looking at numbers so as to determine mgmts problems? What should it matter to us that it costs X amount to fly OUR REPLACEMENT jets vs letting OUR jobs be replaced because its cheaper for the company? Its probably cheaper for the Regionals to fly ALL of our planes right? Why are we concerned with the companies cost of doing business on the narrowbody replacement aircraft only? IF the company wants those aircraft in service then it shouldnt matter to us as a union what the cost of doing business is, it should be our concern though that its our pilots behind the controls! I thought the union was there to protect the jobs not to solve mgmts problems? Again, forgive me if i'm missing something here.
MOST EXCELLENT!! Keep the warriors fired up!!!
MOST EXCELLENT!! Keep the warriors fired up!!!
Bar;
You ever feel like you are just raging against the machine....Man I don't get it either. Bring the DCIs on board already. Quit trying to figure out mgmts job.
DALPA should not be even remotely concerned about reverse engineering Delta Mgmt.
02-26-2010, 03:04 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Look, all great campaigns borrow from the past...just call this what we once called it:
Manifest Destiny
It is the MAJOR'S, Manifest Destiny to incorporate all 'rebel' and 'insurgent' and 'contracted' and 'regional' and 'territorial' flying into our fold.
Keep it, use it, no charge.
Delta Manifest Destiny Campaign, 2012
02-26-2010, 03:04 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
