Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-26-2010, 08:53 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Thanks for participating 
Sorry for everyone else who got tied up in a scope debate between us two.
OK, you score a point on buy back of what we sold. Of course, our "credits" were washed away int he storm of bankruptcy so we "sold" this flying and got nothing for it.
A point was lost on citing "opinion." Here are a few documented opinions:
JB - Left seat of the 777
BK - 76 seats, the jobs below that are worth less
LM - It depends, 76 seats works for now
TD - Go for scope purity and let the airlines figure out how to buy airplanes & staff the rest of their employees
Subjective opinions can not be counted on and result in a beauty contest, which can be won by Ms. South Carolina based on her "poise" :YouTube - Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question
Without objective standards for winning a loss is inevitable. You are talking about changing opinion. Consider the change in opinion from 1999 to today. In 1999 resolutions were passed trying to Section 8 ALPA members who simply wanted to maintain status quo in scope negotiations. Today we are debating the outsourcing of 100 seaters, drawing the circle of "Delta jobs" even smaller.
We will lose unless we return to our representational roots. The Romans understood this, the Christians understood this. Great, enduring, powers, have inclusion as a matter of policy. Apartied government structures inevitably fail as the elites draw an ever smaller circle until they are overthrown.
The best hope for our profession is for professional pilots to come together and bargain collectively. Our strength (for the Goose and Gander) is found in numbers. Geese have discovered this BTW. They find safety and efficiency in large flocks. I'm sure that means waiting for the slower Geese to catch up from time to time, whether it be old, or young.
The only way our Association is relevant is if we return to the basics. As Dave Behnke said "If one pilot has a problem, we all have a problem." We may have to make pragmatic compromises, but our union was founded on the very principle that junior pilots would replace more senior pilots cheaper unless we came together and put up barriers to pilot replacement.
In your example, the Gander has gotten senile and forgotten why he ever hooked up with the Goose to begin with. When he's sitting fat, slow and alone on a lake, he's an easy target.
Sorry for everyone else who got tied up in a scope debate between us two.Ball is in your Court. I ask that you tell us:
(1) Why going forward is the 76 seat RJ with current weight limitations the logical hinge point for outsourcing?
My opinion is it was at 70 seats but 1113C raised the bar by a first class section. Now that those jets are off property, it is not the economics of operation is it is the economics of buy back.
(1) Why going forward is the 76 seat RJ with current weight limitations the logical hinge point for outsourcing?
My opinion is it was at 70 seats but 1113C raised the bar by a first class section. Now that those jets are off property, it is not the economics of operation is it is the economics of buy back.
A point was lost on citing "opinion." Here are a few documented opinions:
JB - Left seat of the 777
BK - 76 seats, the jobs below that are worth less
LM - It depends, 76 seats works for now
TD - Go for scope purity and let the airlines figure out how to buy airplanes & staff the rest of their employees
Subjective opinions can not be counted on and result in a beauty contest, which can be won by Ms. South Carolina based on her "poise" :YouTube - Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question
(2) Will this job security breakwater hold in future bargaining?
According to some we are just delaying the inevitable. I disagree.
It depends on education. You know this. Showing our group that the 100 seat concession in the next Ch11 round will effect their jobs will in the end make the group as a whole decide that standing strong at all costs is worth it. Until then it is a question mark. I have answered this before.
I know I am willing to fight for that line. Period. Simply put after that it is not my fight as if I survive the sale, the career will not be worth having with my seniority. Even if I was senior enough to clear this collision, I would fight for it. Why? That is simple, my job will be next.
According to some we are just delaying the inevitable. I disagree.
It depends on education. You know this. Showing our group that the 100 seat concession in the next Ch11 round will effect their jobs will in the end make the group as a whole decide that standing strong at all costs is worth it. Until then it is a question mark. I have answered this before.
I know I am willing to fight for that line. Period. Simply put after that it is not my fight as if I survive the sale, the career will not be worth having with my seniority. Even if I was senior enough to clear this collision, I would fight for it. Why? That is simple, my job will be next.
We will lose unless we return to our representational roots. The Romans understood this, the Christians understood this. Great, enduring, powers, have inclusion as a matter of policy. Apartied government structures inevitably fail as the elites draw an ever smaller circle until they are overthrown.
(3) Is it appropriate for our union to allow one pilot to deal away another pilot's job security and career progression?
Loaded question. Are you suggesting we dump ALPA and go to the Jet Blue style of contract where each pilot signs their own five year deal? If not you need to have a group that takes the best interest of the gander and not a single goose to mind. IMO, D-ALPA is morphing more to a position that is favorable to this.
Back to you!
Loaded question. Are you suggesting we dump ALPA and go to the Jet Blue style of contract where each pilot signs their own five year deal? If not you need to have a group that takes the best interest of the gander and not a single goose to mind. IMO, D-ALPA is morphing more to a position that is favorable to this.
Back to you!
The only way our Association is relevant is if we return to the basics. As Dave Behnke said "If one pilot has a problem, we all have a problem." We may have to make pragmatic compromises, but our union was founded on the very principle that junior pilots would replace more senior pilots cheaper unless we came together and put up barriers to pilot replacement.
In your example, the Gander has gotten senile and forgotten why he ever hooked up with the Goose to begin with. When he's sitting fat, slow and alone on a lake, he's an easy target.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-26-2010 at 09:20 AM.
02-26-2010, 09:14 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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02-26-2010, 09:37 AM
Moderator
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02-26-2010, 09:49 AM
No longer cares
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02-26-2010, 09:50 AM
Happy to be here
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Posts: 18,563
Dispute it. Or call them and ask for it to be removed. Sometimes that works.
02-26-2010, 09:51 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
02-26-2010, 09:53 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
02-26-2010, 09:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Quote: ACL65
Bar;
I told you Slow would jump on here and tell you they had been done.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Bar;
I told you Slow would jump on here and tell you they had been done.
Of course. I understand that prior to the merger, prior to bankruptcy, economic analysis was done.
btw, while the methods were different, they came to the same result.
02-26-2010, 10:01 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Duh. Point was that there is a ton of money to be made in Large Animal Medicine. You just need to know where to go. Angus hurds of beef is a good place to start. Cutting Horses is another.
02-26-2010, 10:02 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Again, Bar, you're wrong. There were meetings as recently as last March/April to determine if costs were being appropriately allocated among DCI/Mainline carrier in the determination of aircraft routes and profitability. We looked at the different methods NWA and DAL had used in making those decisions and how merged Delta was going to do it going forward.
btw, while the methods were different, they came to the same result.
btw, while the methods were different, they came to the same result.
Well you saved me the trouble of telling him that. The numbers are new. They were run again after the CPS issue. Not because of it, just after it.
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