Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-25-2010, 01:23 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
I read something recently that discussed why bedford is rushing to get out of the regional feed business. He supposedly believes that the majors are planning to get out of the fee for departure business. That gets them out of the business of guaranteed profits.
Now combine that with the fact that a large majority of the major airline pilots are adamant about NOT giving up scope anymore he may be right. The LARGE numbers of 50 seaters are getting old and arent economical anymore, scrutiny over the regionals/RJ's, fee per departure contracts on the way out, and most SCOPE limits are maxed out or getting there are going to make the regional bubble burst. I think thats why RAH is trying to put its future in its own hands because its going to become a bloodbath in the regional industry in the future as the industry consolidates and moves to larger aircraft. Time will tell
Now combine that with the fact that a large majority of the major airline pilots are adamant about NOT giving up scope anymore he may be right. The LARGE numbers of 50 seaters are getting old and arent economical anymore, scrutiny over the regionals/RJ's, fee per departure contracts on the way out, and most SCOPE limits are maxed out or getting there are going to make the regional bubble burst. I think thats why RAH is trying to put its future in its own hands because its going to become a bloodbath in the regional industry in the future as the industry consolidates and moves to larger aircraft. Time will tell
02-25-2010, 01:26 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
e10vk
CHQ 2016
Shuttle 2019
ASA/SKY 2020
Freedom 2012
PCL (CR2) 2017
PCL (CR9) 2019
CHQ 2016
Shuttle 2019
ASA/SKY 2020
Freedom 2012
PCL (CR2) 2017
PCL (CR9) 2019
Contingencies Related to Termination of Contract Carrier Agreements
We may terminate the Chautauqua and Shuttle America agreements without cause at any time after May 2010 and January 2016, respectively, by providing certain advance notice. If we terminate either the Chautauqua or Shuttle America agreements without cause, Chautauqua or Shuttle America, respectively, has the right to (1) assign to us leased aircraft that the airline operates for us, provided we are able to continue the leases on the same terms the airline had prior to the assignment and (2) require us to purchase or lease any of the aircraft that the airline owns and operates for us at the time of the termination. If we are required to purchase aircraft owned by Chautauqua or Shuttle America, the purchase price would be equal to the amount necessary to (1) reimburse Chautauqua or Shuttle America for the equity it provided to purchase the aircraft and (2) repay in full any debt outstanding at such time that is not being assumed in connection with such purchase. If we are required to lease aircraft owned by Chautauqua or Shuttle America, the lease would have (1) a rate equal to the debt payments of Chautauqua or Shuttle America for the debt financing of the aircraft calculated as if 90% of the aircraft was debt financed by Chautauqua or Shuttle America and (2) other specified terms and conditions.
We estimate that the total fair values, determined as of December 31, 2009, of the aircraft that Chautauqua or Shuttle America could assign to us or require that we purchase if we terminate without cause our contract carrier agreements with those airlines (the “Put Right”) are approximately $200 million and $440 million, respectively. The actual amount that we may be required to pay in these circumstances may be materially different from these estimates. If the Chautauqua or Shuttle America Put Right is exercised, we must also pay the exercising carrier 10% interest (compounded monthly) on the equity the carrier provided when it purchased the put aircraft. These equity amounts for Chautauqua and Shuttle America total $25 million and $52 million, respectively.
02-25-2010, 01:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,902
Disagree. They are some of the lowest paid in the industry. When you have 8000 head, you gonna spend $500, or even $300 to save one?
Nope. You solve that problem with a 15 cent 12 gauge shell and have steak for the winter.
Nu
Nope. You solve that problem with a 15 cent 12 gauge shell and have steak for the winter.
Nu
02-25-2010, 01:35 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Super,
Ridding themselves of FFD does not mean stopping third part lift. What it means is making these airlines risk sharing partners in the flying. This will happen with what are now pass through costs as well as the profit.
I guess we could determine that they would be JV's because in effect that is how much of it could be set up. The difference is that they would be flying for the DL code alone. Point is that these airlines will be exposed to the profit/loss side of the equation.
The trick come in with routes that these airlines will refuse to fly. Say ATL-CSG. It may not make money for DAL so it will not make money for SKW. How will DAL for them to fly a route that will not make money for them without guaranteeing them a profit.
Thoughts to ponder.
Ridding themselves of FFD does not mean stopping third part lift. What it means is making these airlines risk sharing partners in the flying. This will happen with what are now pass through costs as well as the profit.
I guess we could determine that they would be JV's because in effect that is how much of it could be set up. The difference is that they would be flying for the DL code alone. Point is that these airlines will be exposed to the profit/loss side of the equation.
The trick come in with routes that these airlines will refuse to fly. Say ATL-CSG. It may not make money for DAL so it will not make money for SKW. How will DAL for them to fly a route that will not make money for them without guaranteeing them a profit.
Thoughts to ponder.
02-25-2010, 01:36 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
02-25-2010, 01:37 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Respectfully, you might want to 1) see the houses and estates that the Large Animal Vets in my family live in and 2) take a gander at the business out in Texas and points West.
I know many a millionaire off of large animal medicine.
02-25-2010, 01:38 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Correct 80 and I would expect that to happen, well maybe....
02-25-2010, 01:43 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,576
02-25-2010, 02:01 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,902
02-25-2010, 02:33 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Yes it is. But who said those airplanes are intended for the competition?
We are very close to being back in negotiations and our own official publications from my LEC tell me things, in bold like:
That question is answered:... or Welcome to Compass/Republic/Mesaba First Officer Bucking Bar. What was flying that Boeing like? Well this is how we do things here.
The problem is with the economic analysis of what is a "standard mainline aircraft." As we have seen that definition moves all over the place. From 66 seat DC9's to 99 seat E170's.
Until we wrestle our union away from a economic analysis of job security to a view that every union member's job is equally important we are not going to stop this horse trading of job security and advancement for another pilots percieved (not real) pay benefit.
Delta is on record saying it's priority is cleaning up its balance sheet and reducing debt. It aint buying a large number of jets, yet. When it does buy, it will probably be fully tasked with the need to renew the 767, 757, and 747 fleets. We will probably hear our employer lacks the money for a narrow body replacement. But our partners, like SkyWest & Republic, have plenty of money and are eager to spend it, 'oh and by the way they are non-ALPA.
ALPA seems oblivious to the fact that its facilitation of outsourcing seriously erodes its power. ALPA should immediately claim its exclusivity over Delta flying. If it flies it should have an ALPA crew and preferably a Delta crew.
What is the difference between Republic leasing a jet from Bombardier and being contracted by Delta, and Delta leasing that jet itself? Why do we care? As a union we should simply take the position "We fly airplanes, We don't buy them." If it operates in Delta colors then it is flown by a Delta pilot and we don't care if Republic leases it, you lease it, or that fat dude on LOST buys the airplane with lottery winnings... we fly it.
We are very close to being back in negotiations and our own official publications from my LEC tell me things, in bold like:
That question is answered:... or Welcome to Compass/Republic/Mesaba First Officer Bucking Bar. What was flying that Boeing like? Well this is how we do things here.
The problem is with the economic analysis of what is a "standard mainline aircraft." As we have seen that definition moves all over the place. From 66 seat DC9's to 99 seat E170's.
Until we wrestle our union away from a economic analysis of job security to a view that every union member's job is equally important we are not going to stop this horse trading of job security and advancement for another pilots percieved (not real) pay benefit.
Delta is on record saying it's priority is cleaning up its balance sheet and reducing debt. It aint buying a large number of jets, yet. When it does buy, it will probably be fully tasked with the need to renew the 767, 757, and 747 fleets. We will probably hear our employer lacks the money for a narrow body replacement. But our partners, like SkyWest & Republic, have plenty of money and are eager to spend it, 'oh and by the way they are non-ALPA.
ALPA seems oblivious to the fact that its facilitation of outsourcing seriously erodes its power. ALPA should immediately claim its exclusivity over Delta flying. If it flies it should have an ALPA crew and preferably a Delta crew.
What is the difference between Republic leasing a jet from Bombardier and being contracted by Delta, and Delta leasing that jet itself? Why do we care? As a union we should simply take the position "We fly airplanes, We don't buy them." If it operates in Delta colors then it is flown by a Delta pilot and we don't care if Republic leases it, you lease it, or that fat dude on LOST buys the airplane with lottery winnings... we fly it.
I believe these are the opening rounds of the Great War of 2012. After flying with several senior CA who point blank say they will sell scope for pay and retirement and reading this union publication, I see the senior half or third or whatever making a concerted effort to sell 120 seats for shiny new 777/787 and bigger paychecks or retirements. The C44 publication blatantly states that my job is not worth the effort to keep vs the upper half. If that attitude prevails, we will become an anti union. Instead of garnering the most jobs possible the union will sell jobs to enrich its most senior members. The merger has made this even more probable. Remember, more people on the back side of the career curve were added than on the front side.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
