Pineapple Guy

And it WILL be..... as soon as those guys stop accepting $23/hr.

This really isn't rocket science, guys. We have half the airline pilots in this country WILLING to work for regional wages. THAT'S why we have half the pilots in this country WORKING for regional wages. And until that changes, the pressure on mainline wages will never end.

forgot to bid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

And it WILL be..... as soon as those guys stop accepting $23/hr.

Oh no pineapple! you’re giving me flashbacks to a couple of years ago when I was sitting at an Applebee's bar in Strongsville OH when a wasted CAL Captain found out that I was a Coex pilot. He said the same thing, basically we need to scope ourselves so that he doesn’t have to fight for scope I guess. In the 5 minutes he was talking to me he got so angry that he lost his composure completely in front of the entire restaurant and his his friend had to pull him out of the bar. I never even hardly got to say a word other than yes, hi my name is FTB, the ladies say I’m hot and yeah I’m a coex pilot. I'm a lover not a fighter so I'm serious in that I didn't say much. He didn’t finish eating or pay his bill btw, nice. As we used to say over the radio… scab. Whether it was true or not.

Having regional pilots scope themselves could work, in a vacuum. The truth is in order to get as job here with us they must go there and earn what too many, way way too many, mainline pilots have previously supported or condoned as a “paying their dues” wages.

As far as I see it when it comes to DCI, DALPA (I don’t just mean the MEC I mean us) should fight for pay and training improvements. If its our name, our routes, our jets then by all means it should be our wages.

Just think, what we know as Colgan 3407 is referred to as Continental 3407 and rightfully so, our name, our reputation rides with all of DCI.

Now Pineapple, I’m not trying to be combative and I'm not suggesting their pay be increased solely for solidarity reasons. I mean we kid here and I’m realistic to know that won’t happen, but in a vacuum less devoid of reality it’d be good for us if their wages matched ours. But it is not their responsibility to scope themselves and we should not blame them for taking the only practical and relatively fastest path these days to our seats. Unless we start blaming the 07-08 hires for taking jobs at bankruptcy wages.

JobHopper

+1.

Every time I visit my son at college and walk into the house he's renting with his buddies, I have to remember to put on my horse blinders and bite my tongue. It's a total mess, yet he is perfectly happy with it. So is his girlfriend. And his roommates. And every other kid I've run into there. Young people have a much different perspective than us "professionals".

So, for a young adult to get the opportunity to fly a JET, you'd better believe they will jump at it regardless of "our" opinion. That mentality will never change; it comes with being young.

Lesson from a divorce: You cannot change the way another person feels or acts; you can only take care of your own actions. We need to stop focusing on what DCI pilots may or may not do, on how they should or should not feel. You can't change it. Our focus needs to be on our lives and our contract, not theirs.

That's my opinion and it oughta be yours.

johnso29

Ah, Strongsville OH. The Holiday Inn. How nostalgic.

johnso29

PG,

I fear this will never happen. I partially blame ALPA National. I feel they do NOTHING to educate guys coming into the field. Can't they go to the Embry Riddle's, North Dakota's, and all the big schools and EDUCATE these guys/gals about what they're getting into?

Another thing that I feel is an issue is the RLA. It's got every pilot group hands tied. Many of the ALPA Carriers are working on contracts that are 6+ years old, and management gets to use the RLA to their advantage just laughing all the way to the bank as they get years of cheap labor. Look at Pinnacle. Their contract is basically what they had when they were still flying turboprops, and now they're flying CRJ-200/900's. They had 4+ years of contract negotiations, and management SPIT in their face with a contract that had ZERO improvements. It's a win-win situation for 9E management. Either the pilot group breaks and signs it, or it's back to drawing board. What's more sad is ALPA National told the pilot group to sign the TA. Or what about Spirit? The company has been profitable, and management wants 30% CONCESSIONS!!!

The blame does not lie squarely on the shoulders of the regional pilots. ALPA National got greedy, and now they've hosed all of us.

forgot to bid

A) I feel like doubling down here. Pilots who apply for and fly for a carrier in bankruptcy wages are unprofessional. Thats all of the 2007-2008 hires at Delta whether they're RJ, 20 year military or corporate. The fact that they're willing to fly big jets for rates less then those jets should be flown (in the oppinion of most everyone already flying those big jets) is shameful and they should have scorn heaped down from those on the seniority list above them.

gag. btw I'm being saracastic. New hires can't change any system- old hands can... if they want, and chances are they don't care enough to step up to the plate, they'd rather demand the kids do the work such as scope themselves out of a job so mainline pilots everywhere don't have to undo the mess they allowed.

Maybe I should double down again, maybe any pilot who doesn't quit because they're flying under bk wages are the problem with this industry. Thats using the same logic.

B) If you want to enact a change then those with the power are the only ones that can. The worlds largest pilot union certainly could be heard if we stepped up to the microphone or the airline passengers' beloved USAToday and WSJ op eds and said that we believe the low wages paid for by regional airlines produces a situation that is unsafe.

Pilots are getting burned out financially, the lack of work rules causing faitgue in the cockpit and personal training costs are so high that they'll never make their money back and therein fewer quality candidates are in the pipeline for the profession. Also, the quality of the training and flight operations of the regional carriers varies so wildly that an investigation is warranted not only into the airlines but the FAA system. Top it off with a if it wasn't for the shear drive of these pilots to fight through these adversities and do the right thing the airline transportation system would fail. That'd surely get some attention if DALPA made an official complaint about that and not one bit of it a stretch. Its just whether we think as a pilot group its worth a fight and my bet to most pilots it is not.

C) We took jobs for $18/hr to fly a turboprop. And luckily I came in after you had to do a SWA and drop $10K on PFT. A jet had nothing to do with it. In most all instances jets are the only option at the regional airlines today. In many cases where there is an option between props and jets the wise ones motivated to get PIC time go prop.

Good post. To add, any regional airline that has gotten a pay raise has lost flying to other carriers.

forgot to bid

Tsquare, you're getting closer and closer to getting the last laugh with Kiffin.

80ktsClamp

-1.

You aren't sitting in reality if you think that people will stop accepting those wages. It is proven wrong every day.



The pressure has to come from the top down, and in the name of safety we have to start requiring the regionals (through scope) to attract the best applicants. Then they will price themselves back into the airline being singular top to bottom entity.

acl65pilot

The profession needs to offer an alternative to regional wages. When a pilot is trying to get in to this industry they go where they go because that is really the only option. Give them something better and they will take it.

There are not enough freight or night cargo jobs flying checks. Little Bills in congress have largely gotten rid of that route as technology has taken over. The military option is no longer a direct path as many go fly UAV's on the first or second tour. Regionals are really the most direct path that many have.

Now that upgrade is not a year or two, pilots at the regionals are fighting to make better wages off the bat. The way ALPA is set up, that is up to their MEC's, but the pressure is there. The two year upgrade is gone. There is about a four to five year window of opportunity to change these wages as, in half a decade they will be hiring Captains off the street once again.

80ktsClamp

I've still been lurking here... just havent been as talkative!


I had a chat with super about that whole deal last night. DL reserve is very easy. I've been here for 3 years now, and only 3 of my months here have been as a regular lineholder.

Just like any reserve system, it just takes a couple months to get the hang of and learn the nuances. Never underestimate the power of the sexy voice.

I like the default to long call over having to bid for it. I've sat both top of the pile reserve and bottom of the pile reserve. Senior reserve you get weekends off and by virtue of that sit on your butt most of the month. Junior reserve you work weekends, and by virtue of that you fly more.

My only gripes with our reserve system are as follows:

1-4 trips should be credited to what a lineholder gets.
5. Short call should add to credit.
6. 75 hours would be nice.
7. The elusive short calls and that being totally at the whim of scheduling.


If any of you junior NERDs have any questions at all about reserve. PLEASE PM me. I can clear up a lot of stuff and give you some good technique so it's not so mysterious and will make a lot more sense when and why something happens. It will be a lot less frustrating.



And whenever you do get frustrated: fullfill your obligations and no more. Don't try to fix a situation that they have gotten themseves into. "Let Delta be Delta" is a great thing to say to yourself whenever you see something special ed going on.

They really do have the best intentions 99% of the time... just sometimes things get jacked up. It's an airline!