Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-20-2010, 05:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,016
1. Hotels
2. Hourly Wages
3. Delta gives long call last day of reserve
4. I like the Delta short call/long call system as I'm junior. If I was senior, I would be ****ed as NWA let senior pilots have long call every single day of reserve except last day. It let people not senior enough for long call pick short call times in seniority order.
That's it. 4 things. 3 if you're not extremely junior. There's always a catch with the Delta way. NWA reserve pilots had the same trip and duty rigs as line holders. If a NWA pilot deviated from a deadhead, per diem was not affected. If a NWA pilot did a single deadhead on his last day, that day counted as one day towards his 5:00 average duty day (the Delta way is 5:15 average day, but deadhead days don't count). NWA guarantee was 70 for lineholders/75 for reserve, time and a half over 80. I'm honestly not sure that the Delta contract was the contract we should have used for this merger. I'm extremely grateful for the merger as I know I would be furloughed right now without the merger. I am proud to work for the largest airline in the world, but things could be a lot better. They could be a lot worse also, but lets focus on the better. Our contract needs improving, and the old NWA contract is a good place to start.
Last edited by hockeypilot44; 02-20-2010 at 05:49 PM.
02-20-2010, 06:11 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
Is this even legal per FAR's and the Whitlow Letter? Super. This is a perfect example of how the Delta way is not better. I can name the things better at Delta on one hand. I'll try right now.
1. Hotels
2. Hourly Wages
3. Delta gives long call last day of reserve
4. I like the Delta short call/long call system as I'm junior. If I was senior, I would be ****ed as NWA let senior pilots have long call every single day of reserve except last day. It let people not senior enough for long call pick short call times in seniority order.
That's it. 4 things. 3 if you're not extremely junior. There's always a catch with the Delta way. NWA reserve pilots had the same trip and duty rigs as line holders. If a NWA pilot deviated from a deadhead, per diem was not affected. If a NWA pilot did a single deadhead on his last day, that day counted as one day towards his 5:00 average duty day (the Delta way is 5:15 average day, but deadhead days don't count). NWA guarantee was 70 for lineholders/75 for reserve, time and a half over 80. I'm honestly not sure that the Delta contract was the contract we should have used for this merger. I'm extremely grateful for the merger as I know I would be furloughed right now without the merger. I am proud to work for the largest airline in the world, but things could be a lot better. They could be a lot worse also, but lets focus on the better. Our contract needs improving, and the old NWA contract is a good place to start.
1. Hotels
2. Hourly Wages
3. Delta gives long call last day of reserve
4. I like the Delta short call/long call system as I'm junior. If I was senior, I would be ****ed as NWA let senior pilots have long call every single day of reserve except last day. It let people not senior enough for long call pick short call times in seniority order.
That's it. 4 things. 3 if you're not extremely junior. There's always a catch with the Delta way. NWA reserve pilots had the same trip and duty rigs as line holders. If a NWA pilot deviated from a deadhead, per diem was not affected. If a NWA pilot did a single deadhead on his last day, that day counted as one day towards his 5:00 average duty day (the Delta way is 5:15 average day, but deadhead days don't count). NWA guarantee was 70 for lineholders/75 for reserve, time and a half over 80. I'm honestly not sure that the Delta contract was the contract we should have used for this merger. I'm extremely grateful for the merger as I know I would be furloughed right now without the merger. I am proud to work for the largest airline in the world, but things could be a lot better. They could be a lot worse also, but lets focus on the better. Our contract needs improving, and the old NWA contract is a good place to start.
02-20-2010, 06:50 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Is this even legal per FAR's and the Whitlow Letter? Super. This is a perfect example of how the Delta way is not better. I can name the things better at Delta on one hand. I'll try right now.
1. Hotels
2. Hourly Wages
3. Delta gives long call last day of reserve
4. I like the Delta short call/long call system as I'm junior. If I was senior, I would be ****ed as NWA let senior pilots have long call every single day of reserve except last day. It let people not senior enough for long call pick short call times in seniority order.
That's it. 4 things. 3 if you're not extremely junior. There's always a catch with the Delta way. NWA reserve pilots had the same trip and duty rigs as line holders. If a NWA pilot deviated from a deadhead, per diem was not affected. If a NWA pilot did a single deadhead on his last day, that day counted as one day towards his 5:00 average duty day (the Delta way is 5:15 average day, but deadhead days don't count). NWA guarantee was 70 for lineholders/75 for reserve, time and a half over 80. I'm honestly not sure that the Delta contract was the contract we should have used for this merger. I'm extremely grateful for the merger as I know I would be furloughed right now without the merger. I am proud to work for the largest airline in the world, but things could be a lot better. They could be a lot worse also, but lets focus on the better. Our contract needs improving, and the old NWA contract is a good place to start.
1. Hotels
2. Hourly Wages
3. Delta gives long call last day of reserve
4. I like the Delta short call/long call system as I'm junior. If I was senior, I would be ****ed as NWA let senior pilots have long call every single day of reserve except last day. It let people not senior enough for long call pick short call times in seniority order.
That's it. 4 things. 3 if you're not extremely junior. There's always a catch with the Delta way. NWA reserve pilots had the same trip and duty rigs as line holders. If a NWA pilot deviated from a deadhead, per diem was not affected. If a NWA pilot did a single deadhead on his last day, that day counted as one day towards his 5:00 average duty day (the Delta way is 5:15 average day, but deadhead days don't count). NWA guarantee was 70 for lineholders/75 for reserve, time and a half over 80. I'm honestly not sure that the Delta contract was the contract we should have used for this merger. I'm extremely grateful for the merger as I know I would be furloughed right now without the merger. I am proud to work for the largest airline in the world, but things could be a lot better. They could be a lot worse also, but lets focus on the better. Our contract needs improving, and the old NWA contract is a good place to start.
As far as Legal goes, Its 100% legal because you're getting your required rest. Longcall is a CONTRACTUAL agreement and has nothing to do with FARs. My point is that LC was established to give extra notice not for rest. I realize that the guys that live in base likely dont care but or those of us that commute longcall is a HUGE QOL issue. LC should be a MINIMUM notice of 12 hours and have nothing to do with rest. We should get our rest then get our contractual notice. This is another thing we need to address in the contract on the next go around. Especially as more and more pilots start to commute.
disclaimer: this isnt a NWA is better argument this is sharing ideas and exposing things that could be improved. Alot of us from the NWA side are starting to see things that we can compare from our old contract and would love to get some of this stuff fixed
02-20-2010, 07:03 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
FWIW, The way I have been scheduled if no other assignment was avail and I was required to have rest. DO+required rest, then LC.
I guess if you answer your phone during your subsequent rest, they place a trip on you with 12 to callout, then you are getting your required rest. I say do not answer the phone until you have that rest.
Normally they will assign you rest, which you have to acknowledge and then a trip if it ever cuts that close.
I guess if you answer your phone during your subsequent rest, they place a trip on you with 12 to callout, then you are getting your required rest. I say do not answer the phone until you have that rest.
Normally they will assign you rest, which you have to acknowledge and then a trip if it ever cuts that close.
02-20-2010, 07:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,902
Your reps will soon be making the choices for the 2012 Negotiating Committee.
Make sure that they pick someone who appreciates your views. I would URGE you to call them.
Nu
02-20-2010, 07:30 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-7ER JFK
Posts: 931
Oops - don't have time to answer this, gotta run.
I think you have two questions there:
Here's the section of the contract that talks about checking your schedule the day prior to coming on duty for reserve:
A long call pilot will be notified of his assignment to open time under Section 23 N. or O. by one of the following two methods:
(1)telephone contact from Crew Scheduling.
(2) electronic placement of a rotation or conversion to short call that is placed on his schedule prior to:
a) his release from a rotation, or
b) nine hours before the end of his last non-fly day (other than a vacation day) before an on-call day.
also:
A reserve pilot will be required to check his schedule via DBMS or VRU:
no later than 0200 base time on his first on-call day following a non-fly day, so as to be able to acknowledge: a) any assignment no later than three hours before a scheduled report of the rotation or start of a short call period, or
I think you have two questions there:
Here's the section of the contract that talks about checking your schedule the day prior to coming on duty for reserve:
A long call pilot will be notified of his assignment to open time under Section 23 N. or O. by one of the following two methods:
(1)telephone contact from Crew Scheduling.
(2) electronic placement of a rotation or conversion to short call that is placed on his schedule prior to:
a) his release from a rotation, or
b) nine hours before the end of his last non-fly day (other than a vacation day) before an on-call day.
also:
A reserve pilot will be required to check his schedule via DBMS or VRU:
no later than 0200 base time on his first on-call day following a non-fly day, so as to be able to acknowledge: a) any assignment no later than three hours before a scheduled report of the rotation or start of a short call period, or
02-20-2010, 07:32 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Come on Viking, you know they can look the other way when you want to give up contractual stuff, but there is no way they will look the other way to benefit you. After all a contract is a contract. 
02-20-2010, 07:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
02-20-2010, 07:39 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I'm looking around the contract for a clearer answer but I posted something on Sink's threads he started just so that if it comes again its not lost in the 30,000 posts of L&G About DAL.
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02-20-2010, 07:44 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Is this even legal per FAR's and the Whitlow Letter? Super. This is a perfect example of how the Delta way is not better. I can name the things better at Delta on one hand. I'll try right now.
1. Hotels
2. Hourly Wages
3. Delta gives long call last day of reserve
4. I like the Delta short call/long call system as I'm junior. If I was senior, I would be ****ed as NWA let senior pilots have long call every single day of reserve except last day. It let people not senior enough for long call pick short call times in seniority order.
That's it. 4 things. 3 if you're not extremely junior. There's always a catch with the Delta way. NWA reserve pilots had the same trip and duty rigs as line holders. If a NWA pilot deviated from a deadhead, per diem was not affected. If a NWA pilot did a single deadhead on his last day, that day counted as one day towards his 5:00 average duty day (the Delta way is 5:15 average day, but deadhead days don't count). NWA guarantee was 70 for lineholders/75 for reserve, time and a half over 80. I'm honestly not sure that the Delta contract was the contract we should have used for this merger. I'm extremely grateful for the merger as I know I would be furloughed right now without the merger. I am proud to work for the largest airline in the world, but things could be a lot better. They could be a lot worse also, but lets focus on the better. Our contract needs improving, and the old NWA contract is a good place to start.
1. Hotels
2. Hourly Wages
3. Delta gives long call last day of reserve
4. I like the Delta short call/long call system as I'm junior. If I was senior, I would be ****ed as NWA let senior pilots have long call every single day of reserve except last day. It let people not senior enough for long call pick short call times in seniority order.
That's it. 4 things. 3 if you're not extremely junior. There's always a catch with the Delta way. NWA reserve pilots had the same trip and duty rigs as line holders. If a NWA pilot deviated from a deadhead, per diem was not affected. If a NWA pilot did a single deadhead on his last day, that day counted as one day towards his 5:00 average duty day (the Delta way is 5:15 average day, but deadhead days don't count). NWA guarantee was 70 for lineholders/75 for reserve, time and a half over 80. I'm honestly not sure that the Delta contract was the contract we should have used for this merger. I'm extremely grateful for the merger as I know I would be furloughed right now without the merger. I am proud to work for the largest airline in the world, but things could be a lot better. They could be a lot worse also, but lets focus on the better. Our contract needs improving, and the old NWA contract is a good place to start.
That being said, the schedulers are damn good (most of the time) about giving us prior notice and all due warning. I can count on one hand the times I've been upset about the reserve system. 90% of the time, I think they bend over backwards to accommodate us and move the mission. I don't have a lot of experience with the FNWA schedulers but the FDAL guys and girls have been ultimately professional in my experience. Every now and then, you get an attitude. I'm sure they feel the same way. I just approach them as being part of the team, try to be professional and polite, and they are as well.
I'm not a cockpit lawyer however. I just like to fly.
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