Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-20-2010, 08:14 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
nevermind......................................... ....
02-20-2010, 08:19 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
It has to do with all of the above. But Jet Blue is one of the few airlines "headquartered" in NYC that is the point....
02-20-2010, 08:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
If I read your post correctly, then Jet Blue pays its taxes to Delaware, not New York. And if that is true, then there is some greater underlying reason for the JB support in NYC. My guess would be the political mileage gained form keepng a "low cost" carrier in town plus some campaign contributons thrown in as well (and I believe the money part is probably primary).
02-20-2010, 09:07 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
You're kidding right? Why would they give a rat's behind if JB moves out of NY? I mean they would suck.. what maybe 2-300 high paying 
jobs out of the city? And does anyone really think they would stop flying there even if they did pull their HQ? There might be some tax ramifications that the city would lose, but they would make that up in landing fees and such. 
jobs out of the city? And does anyone really think they would stop flying there even if they did pull their HQ? There might be some tax ramifications that the city would lose, but they would make that up in landing fees and such.
02-20-2010, 09:10 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
02-20-2010, 09:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Lufthansa is on strike to fight Scope erosion.
Vereinigung Cockpit is the LH Union.
Here is their position paper [PDF]:
Cheers
George
Vereinigung Cockpit is the LH Union.
Here is their position paper [PDF]:
At present, the cockpit crews of Lufthansa, Lufthansa Cargo and Germanwings are struggling with their management to come to an agreement regarding their working conditions as well as their payment. Since early 2009, Lufthansa management refuses to make an offer; therefore management has not only provoked industrial action, but is also responsible for this strike.
We would like to take this opportunity to give you some background information:
The pivotal goal of Vereinigung Cockpit is to ensure job security of Lufthansa staff in Germany and to defend these jobs against outsourcing.
First in 1992 Lufthansa pilots agreed to significant cut backs while in return, Lufthansa agreed that all aircraft with 70 seats or more will only be flown by Lufthansa pilots and under Lufthansa conditions. This was once again confirmed in negotiations in 2004. For several years now, Lufthansa is evading this contract through outsourcing and the acquisition of foreign subsidiaries. In recent months, this became extremely obvious through the creation of LUFTHANSA-ITALIA as well as the creation of the cargo joint-ventures AEROLOGIC and JADE. All three companies are run without Lufthansa pilots.
Additionally, instead of creating a sustainable growth for the Lufthansa brand-name, the size of the Lufthansa Group has been increased through the acquisition of less stable airlines (e.g. Brussels Airlines, Austrian, and British Midland). The results are an increase in the financial burden, a reduced investors’ rating and higher interest rates.
In the meantime, the Lufthansa premium product becomes less and less well defined for our valued customers.
Despite the global economic downturn, it is expected that Lufthansa will have a positive result in 2009. Possible losses would be the result of the acquisition of foreign companies.
Due to the very flexible payment system, management was able to save 12% of pilots costs in 2009 alone. Therefore, pilots are demanding that any further cost reduction on their part will only happen under the condition that German jobs will not be moved abroad. Lufthansa is not accepting this condition.
We are on strike because we do not want the profits generated through our work and our contributions to weather the crisis to be used to destroy our jobs in the future.
We would like to take this opportunity to give you some background information:
The pivotal goal of Vereinigung Cockpit is to ensure job security of Lufthansa staff in Germany and to defend these jobs against outsourcing.
First in 1992 Lufthansa pilots agreed to significant cut backs while in return, Lufthansa agreed that all aircraft with 70 seats or more will only be flown by Lufthansa pilots and under Lufthansa conditions. This was once again confirmed in negotiations in 2004. For several years now, Lufthansa is evading this contract through outsourcing and the acquisition of foreign subsidiaries. In recent months, this became extremely obvious through the creation of LUFTHANSA-ITALIA as well as the creation of the cargo joint-ventures AEROLOGIC and JADE. All three companies are run without Lufthansa pilots.
Additionally, instead of creating a sustainable growth for the Lufthansa brand-name, the size of the Lufthansa Group has been increased through the acquisition of less stable airlines (e.g. Brussels Airlines, Austrian, and British Midland). The results are an increase in the financial burden, a reduced investors’ rating and higher interest rates.
In the meantime, the Lufthansa premium product becomes less and less well defined for our valued customers.
Despite the global economic downturn, it is expected that Lufthansa will have a positive result in 2009. Possible losses would be the result of the acquisition of foreign companies.
Due to the very flexible payment system, management was able to save 12% of pilots costs in 2009 alone. Therefore, pilots are demanding that any further cost reduction on their part will only happen under the condition that German jobs will not be moved abroad. Lufthansa is not accepting this condition.
We are on strike because we do not want the profits generated through our work and our contributions to weather the crisis to be used to destroy our jobs in the future.
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 02-20-2010 at 09:31 AM. Reason: added PDF link
02-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,167
Longevity Increase?
Say your DOH is today Feb. 20th. When is your new hourly rate applied to a paycheck under the PWA? Feb. 1st? Mar. 1st? Feb. 20?? Do they prorate the month, or apply it at the beginning or end?
The reason I ask is because NWA split the month. If your employment date was before the 17th of the month, they started your new rate at the beginning of that month, otherwise it would go into effect the following month.
This comes into effect for us FNWA hires that haven't reached 12 years because our longevity step was based on the month your first classmate finished IOE, not hire date. For example my class' longevity step under the old contract was on March 1st, but our first guy to complete IOE (or "employment date" in iCrew shows March 16th.) The only thing I can find in the contract regarding longevity was in section 2:
The bold section seems to indicate that they would use our old longevity date which was always the 1st of some month, March in our case. The way the employment date appears in iCrew leads me to believe that Delta might prorate the month based on the completion of IOE date, not our FNWA longevity date. A difference of 16 days in my class' case. I know this doesn't apply to many of us, and is not the end of the world either way, but we are talking a decent chunk of change.
Johnso29, Super, any ideas? Any south guys able to shed some light on when the longevity step is applied??
Thanks
The reason I ask is because NWA split the month. If your employment date was before the 17th of the month, they started your new rate at the beginning of that month, otherwise it would go into effect the following month.
This comes into effect for us FNWA hires that haven't reached 12 years because our longevity step was based on the month your first classmate finished IOE, not hire date. For example my class' longevity step under the old contract was on March 1st, but our first guy to complete IOE (or "employment date" in iCrew shows March 16th.) The only thing I can find in the contract regarding longevity was in section 2:
"Longevity" means all time beginning at date of employment as a pilot, and ending at
termination of employment as a pilot, retirement as a pilot, or death.
Exception one: For purposes of vacation, sick leave and pass benefits, the longevity of a
pilot who transferred from another Company department will begin on his most recent
date of employment with the Company.
Exception two: Longevity (including vacation and sick leave) does not include periods
during which a pilot remains on furlough due to his decision to bypass recall.
Exception three: On October 30, 2008, a former NWA pilot will receive longevity credit
as it existed at Northwest immediately prior to October 30, 2008 in addition to longevity
credit for any periods of furlough that occurred on or after July 31, 1992 (excluding any
periods of furlough bypass)termination of employment as a pilot, retirement as a pilot, or death.
Exception one: For purposes of vacation, sick leave and pass benefits, the longevity of a
pilot who transferred from another Company department will begin on his most recent
date of employment with the Company.
Exception two: Longevity (including vacation and sick leave) does not include periods
during which a pilot remains on furlough due to his decision to bypass recall.
Exception three: On October 30, 2008, a former NWA pilot will receive longevity credit
as it existed at Northwest immediately prior to October 30, 2008 in addition to longevity
credit for any periods of furlough that occurred on or after July 31, 1992 (excluding any
The bold section seems to indicate that they would use our old longevity date which was always the 1st of some month, March in our case. The way the employment date appears in iCrew leads me to believe that Delta might prorate the month based on the completion of IOE date, not our FNWA longevity date. A difference of 16 days in my class' case. I know this doesn't apply to many of us, and is not the end of the world either way, but we are talking a decent chunk of change.
Johnso29, Super, any ideas? Any south guys able to shed some light on when the longevity step is applied??
Thanks
02-20-2010, 11:50 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Say your DOH is today Feb. 20th. When is your new hourly rate applied to a paycheck under the PWA? Feb. 1st? Mar. 1st? Feb. 20?? Do they prorate the month, or apply it at the beginning or end?
The reason I ask is because NWA split the month. If your employment date was before the 17th of the month, they started your new rate at the beginning of that month, otherwise it would go into effect the following month.
This comes into effect for us FNWA hires that haven't reached 12 years because our longevity step was based on the month your first classmate finished IOE, not hire date. For example my class' longevity step under the old contract was on March 1st, but our first guy to complete IOE (or "employment date" in iCrew shows March 16th.) The only thing I can find in the contract regarding longevity was in section 2:
"Longevity" means all time beginning at date of employment as a pilot, and ending at
termination of employment as a pilot, retirement as a pilot, or death.
Exception one: For purposes of vacation, sick leave and pass benefits, the longevity of a
pilot who transferred from another Company department will begin on his most recent
date of employment with the Company.
Exception two: Longevity (including vacation and sick leave) does not include periods
during which a pilot remains on furlough due to his decision to bypass recall.
Exception three: On October 30, 2008, a former NWA pilot will receive longevity credit
as it existed at Northwest immediately prior to October 30, 2008 in addition to longevity
credit for any periods of furlough that occurred on or after July 31, 1992 (excluding any
periods of furlough bypass)
The bold section seems to indicate that they would use our old longevity date which was always the 1st of some month, March in our case. The way the employment date appears in iCrew leads me to believe that Delta might prorate the month based on the completion of IOE date, not our FNWA longevity date. A difference of 16 days in my class' case. I know this doesn't apply to many of us, and is not the end of the world either way, but we are talking a decent chunk of change.
Johnso29, Super, any ideas? Any south guys able to shed some light on when the longevity step is applied??
Thanks
The reason I ask is because NWA split the month. If your employment date was before the 17th of the month, they started your new rate at the beginning of that month, otherwise it would go into effect the following month.
This comes into effect for us FNWA hires that haven't reached 12 years because our longevity step was based on the month your first classmate finished IOE, not hire date. For example my class' longevity step under the old contract was on March 1st, but our first guy to complete IOE (or "employment date" in iCrew shows March 16th.) The only thing I can find in the contract regarding longevity was in section 2:
"Longevity" means all time beginning at date of employment as a pilot, and ending at
termination of employment as a pilot, retirement as a pilot, or death.
Exception one: For purposes of vacation, sick leave and pass benefits, the longevity of a
pilot who transferred from another Company department will begin on his most recent
date of employment with the Company.
Exception two: Longevity (including vacation and sick leave) does not include periods
during which a pilot remains on furlough due to his decision to bypass recall.
Exception three: On October 30, 2008, a former NWA pilot will receive longevity credit
as it existed at Northwest immediately prior to October 30, 2008 in addition to longevity
credit for any periods of furlough that occurred on or after July 31, 1992 (excluding any
periods of furlough bypass)
The bold section seems to indicate that they would use our old longevity date which was always the 1st of some month, March in our case. The way the employment date appears in iCrew leads me to believe that Delta might prorate the month based on the completion of IOE date, not our FNWA longevity date. A difference of 16 days in my class' case. I know this doesn't apply to many of us, and is not the end of the world either way, but we are talking a decent chunk of change.
Johnso29, Super, any ideas? Any south guys able to shed some light on when the longevity step is applied??
Thanks
I would assume you should get your raise on the same day you got it at NWA. It sure was nice of of the NWA Negotiating Committee to just roll over on that one.
02-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Ok guys,
Just looking for some clarification. I want to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly.
Section 12 G. Break in Duty
4)When a domestic category pilot (or an international category pilot flying in domestic operations) is at his base, a period of at least nine hours (release to report) is required to constitute a break-in-duty.
So, I start SC and receive a turn. I finish the turn, check my schedule and see nothing on it. The time is 2000Z. I am now on rest for 9 hours, and LC will start at 0500Z, correct?
And to go further, the earliest I can be assigned another pattern on LC would be 1700Z? (Assuming I wasn't assigned another pattern at release that would terminate inside my max allowable duty)
Or, is the 9hrs rest + 3 hrs to commute = 12 hours LC? Does LC start right after I'm released??
Thanks in advance
Just looking for some clarification. I want to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly.
Section 12 G. Break in Duty
4)When a domestic category pilot (or an international category pilot flying in domestic operations) is at his base, a period of at least nine hours (release to report) is required to constitute a break-in-duty.
So, I start SC and receive a turn. I finish the turn, check my schedule and see nothing on it. The time is 2000Z. I am now on rest for 9 hours, and LC will start at 0500Z, correct?
And to go further, the earliest I can be assigned another pattern on LC would be 1700Z? (Assuming I wasn't assigned another pattern at release that would terminate inside my max allowable duty)
Or, is the 9hrs rest + 3 hrs to commute = 12 hours LC? Does LC start right after I'm released??
Thanks in advance
02-20-2010, 12:11 PM
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,743
So, I start SC and receive a turn. I finish the turn, check my schedule and see nothing on it. The time is 2000Z. I am now on rest for 9 hours, and LC will start at 0500Z, correct?
And to go further, the earliest I can be assigned another pattern on LC would be 1700Z? (Assuming I wasn't assigned another pattern at release that would terminate inside my max allowable duty)
Or, is the 9hrs rest + 3 hrs to commute = 12 hours LC? Does LC start right after I'm released??
Thanks in advance
And to go further, the earliest I can be assigned another pattern on LC would be 1700Z? (Assuming I wasn't assigned another pattern at release that would terminate inside my max allowable duty)
Or, is the 9hrs rest + 3 hrs to commute = 12 hours LC? Does LC start right after I'm released??
Thanks in advance
At 2000z you go right to LC and rest at the same time. You get your required rest while on LC. At 2001z they could assign you a trip via LC, reporting at 0800z. You are correct on the second part about 9 hrs rest and 3 hours to commute, because you have to acknowledge a trip 3 hours prior to report.
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