Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-31-2010, 06:37 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,948
Just my point. They only know one side of the coin. I don't think they really realize how bad some of there stuff is. On our side of the coin I think that we really had high expectations of what the DAL operation would be only to find that it was way worse than where we came from not better as we had anticipated which has made thing dismal for us. Hopefully we can make it better. Over and out
You are correct - we have been lucky and for the most part have not to change our procedures. A lot of the South guys are looking forward to some positive changes as a result of this merger. I was led to believe that we pretty much went with what was easiest/fastest and the quickest way to SOC as far as procedures go.
Hopefully when the dust settles we will go back and start looking for "best practices" from both sides. While it is true we only know one side of the coin I would venture to say that "some" of the North procedures, policies, and publications were probably better - the same can be said about the South procedures - "some" were probably better. Neither operation on the whole was better than the other and anyone who says so is being foolish. I do not think that I am alone in looking forward to bringing these polices onboard - the commuter policy, jumpseating, etc.
I also realize that there is probably a lot of frustration dealing with these new procedures but what good does "slamming" them on this forum do ( I am not saying you did that - just responding to your post in a general way).
If any North guys have any suggestions on improving the operation, I for one would like to hear them. For example someone mentioned a "runway change checklist" instead of hunting for boxed items - great idea, hopefully we will incorporate it.
With all that being said, it does get old hearing a few guys repeatedly saying how great the Northwest way was and how jacked up the DAL way is. Notice I said "a few guys" as I refuse to paint the whole North group with a broad brush and I am sure most North guys realize that we are not all southern Deltoids, but individuals.
Besides, section 6 negotiations will soon unite us against our true "Evil Overloads" Delta management !!
Scoop
01-31-2010, 06:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
Interesting. So apparently squawking about something CAN influence policy. Apparently being something other than a sheeple works. Whodda thunk it....
I seriously doubt this would have changed had no one complained about it. Conversely, it might have been the legal saber rattling going on, but who knows.
Nu
I seriously doubt this would have changed had no one complained about it. Conversely, it might have been the legal saber rattling going on, but who knows.
Nu
And while it could have been the "legal saber rattling", I would like to think that it was just the fact that management understood that the MEC made a compelling argument as to why it should be changed and a level headed decision was made. I get the fact that the DAL-N pilots are hard-wired to "extreme distrust" but lets give our new management team a few chances to prove us wrong.
01-31-2010, 06:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Interesting. So apparently squawking about something CAN influence policy. Apparently being something other than a sheeple works. Whodda thunk it....
I seriously doubt this would have changed had no one complained about it. Conversely, it might have been the legal saber rattling going on, but who knows.
I seriously doubt this would have changed had no one complained about it. Conversely, it might have been the legal saber rattling going on, but who knows.
btw, it's nice to know that you're a firm supporter of Tom and Greg.
01-31-2010, 06:47 PM
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01-31-2010, 06:47 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
See how much influence you guys have.!
01-31-2010, 06:48 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Good gosh did I miss a bunch of b!tching and complaining today.
The better solution will come to fruition in the long run... we just got SOC for crying out loud. It took well over a year just for that. Are you really thick enough and short sighted enough to think that all the IT issues (there are PLENTY) will be worked out overnight?
We have 2 very different carriers that both had strong and weak points.
Go have a beer or something and kick the dog...geez.
The better solution will come to fruition in the long run... we just got SOC for crying out loud. It took well over a year just for that. Are you really thick enough and short sighted enough to think that all the IT issues (there are PLENTY) will be worked out overnight?
We have 2 very different carriers that both had strong and weak points.
Go have a beer or something and kick the dog...geez.
01-31-2010, 06:48 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Heyas Johsno,
I think what you're seeing is a good bit of "buyer's remorse" on the part of the NWA side.
We were sold this huge bill of goods by DALPA, and I'll be God damned that we didn't start to buy into some of the press along the lines of "well, they were pretty big, and that's a lot of pilots and something must be ok for it to run, and the DAL guys seem to think pretty well of it..."
Now that we have ALL transitioned into BP5 as well as switched over to other side admin wise, just about every one of us has faced the brick wall with regards to the impenetrable bureaucracy, bizarre and punitive paychecks, ridiculous Jepp revisions, visiting the computer software museum with backwards IT, manuals for 3rd graders, stepping back in time with regards to ACARS, a JS system designed by someone who obviously never commuted, home mailboxes chock full of continuing UHC surprises (long term prescriptions, anyone?) and the simplest of tasks made complicated by byzantine procedures (log landings, anyone?).
Then we finally stand up and say "W T F?" and not only do the fDAL guys stand around uninterested in listening to any suggestions for improvement, but start complaing that all we do is squawk about how backwards they are and how lucky we all are for simply stepping foot on hallowed ground..
Well, as the great Steve Martin would say: EXCUSE ME!
That, along with a DALPA that is seemingly complicit in facilitating the company line, yea, I can kinda see where some guys are getting a bit testy.
Nu
I think what you're seeing is a good bit of "buyer's remorse" on the part of the NWA side.
We were sold this huge bill of goods by DALPA, and I'll be God damned that we didn't start to buy into some of the press along the lines of "well, they were pretty big, and that's a lot of pilots and something must be ok for it to run, and the DAL guys seem to think pretty well of it..."
Now that we have ALL transitioned into BP5 as well as switched over to other side admin wise, just about every one of us has faced the brick wall with regards to the impenetrable bureaucracy, bizarre and punitive paychecks, ridiculous Jepp revisions, visiting the computer software museum with backwards IT, manuals for 3rd graders, stepping back in time with regards to ACARS, a JS system designed by someone who obviously never commuted, home mailboxes chock full of continuing UHC surprises (long term prescriptions, anyone?) and the simplest of tasks made complicated by byzantine procedures (log landings, anyone?).
Then we finally stand up and say "W T F?" and not only do the fDAL guys stand around uninterested in listening to any suggestions for improvement, but start complaing that all we do is squawk about how backwards they are and how lucky we all are for simply stepping foot on hallowed ground..
Well, as the great Steve Martin would say: EXCUSE ME!
That, along with a DALPA that is seemingly complicit in facilitating the company line, yea, I can kinda see where some guys are getting a bit testy.
Nu
So the solution is to take your frustrations out on the South guys? Nice. thanks. Very much appreciated. Just be sure to throw in a few expletives and a lawsuit or two, and I am sure we will do whatever we can to help, which is not much to begin with...
01-31-2010, 06:51 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
In all honesty, you guys know I don't play this game most of the time. I banter back and forth with the jokes and the funny pix and that's about it. That being said Nu, I can honestly tell you there is a lot of "buyer's remorse" on our side as well. We were, in fact, "the buyers." In my opinion, what you are suffering from is "short sightedness." Sure, change is hard and you guys have had to endure most of the change. If you can't put down your "we had it better back in the day" compass and see that we are all better off for this marriage, then, quite frankly, you're a lost cause.
Pilots, by nature, are a bunch of selfish, short-sighted ego maniacs. I get that. I am one. But the constant whining and *****ing on this thread has become old. I really don't care what you think or how much your life sucks now, because you got a pay raise and you still have your retirement. I didn't and I don't. Talk about buyers remorse. Move on. Most of the rest of us have. 3rd grade manuals? You sound like my third grader.
Pilots, by nature, are a bunch of selfish, short-sighted ego maniacs. I get that. I am one. But the constant whining and *****ing on this thread has become old. I really don't care what you think or how much your life sucks now, because you got a pay raise and you still have your retirement. I didn't and I don't. Talk about buyers remorse. Move on. Most of the rest of us have. 3rd grade manuals? You sound like my third grader.
Amazing that you and I bolded the exact same phrase in Nu's post.
01-31-2010, 06:53 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Just my point. They only know one side of the coin. I don't think they really realize how bad some of there stuff is. On our side of the coin I think that we really had high expectations of what the DAL operation would be only to find that it was way worse than where we came from not better as we had anticipated which has made thing dismal for us. Hopefully we can make it better. Over and out
01-31-2010, 06:55 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
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