acl65pilot

See going down this road once again can polarize the group. Like the merger or not, we agreed by overwhelming majority to approve the JPWA. It is done and water under the bridge. Whining about it is just going to make it more difficult to work together to get that "Industry Leading Contract" that everyone wants and needs.

Whether it is good thing or not, we bought it and now get to drive it.

Cogf16

Bet his percentage was within 1 or 2 percent of yours. Again, DOH at the previous airline is meaningless at the new airline.

keenster

Just my point. They only know one side of the coin. I don't think they really realize how bad some of there stuff is. On our side of the coin I think that we really had high expectations of what the DAL operation would be only to find that it was way worse than where we came from not better as we had anticipated which has made thing dismal for us. Hopefully we can make it better. Over and out

Sink r8

Ferd,

First, I think Keenster made the point earlier about this frustration, and I think we get it. I don't doubt it's irritating to you, when you promote what you think is a good idea, and you feel you're not listened to. So, I think it's fair that we should carefully listen, and try to work together to flesh out what truly was better, and use that as part of our Section 6 stuff. If nothing else, it would be basic respect. One "mea culpa" on us.

Second, I would respectfully point out that "better" is subjective. Maybe we're thick, and we don't understand everything, you know because we think with a Southern drawl and all, but not everything you guys are promoting sounds as enthralling to us as it does to you. If we give you the courtesy of truly weighing everything, can you agree that we won't always come to the same conclusion?

Third, part of the problem is that we definitely all want things to be better, and we are all focused on our Section 6. One of my concerns is that we're actually going to be expanding capital to do things the way people are comfortable with, versus doing things that make my family more comfortable. Things like money and time off.

Fourth, some of the lack of motivation you might sense from the South side comes a philosphical problem with some of your arguments. There is a bit of a problem when nearly 90% of the North guys voted for the JCBA, and now ask why it's not better.

But still, I agree that we can cut through the fog a little bit, and that there are many things that we haven't considered for Section 6, and many no-cost, or low-cost items, or even best practice items, that we should pursue.

In doing so, one thing that would help, is if the rethoric was turned down a little bit. For example, I'd like less lectures on Northern Mythology. I'm tired of hearing about a land, divided along a linguistic barrier, north of which strong muscular Norsemen rule. Wise and powerful, they spend most of the day showing off their cobra tattoos, and contemplate their numerous war trophies. Favorite among them are the bleached skulls of poor management saps, out of which they drink hydromel.

Evidently, the South part is inhabited by retarded double-breasted Girl Scouts, who spend their time earning badges in Perfect Attendance, Bending Over, and are selling cookies to try to win a trip to Stockholm. To get the t-shirt. The syndrome, they already have. Unfortunately, these Girl Scouts have stomachs too delicate for hydromel, being accustomed mostly to the taste of grape Cool-Aid and executive sperm.

Another area in which the lectures are a little tiresome is Airline Management. For example, how many times will it "revealed" to us that management is not our friend? I was, you know, a little suspicious during bankrupcty, but the light truly came on when dozens of North pilots revealed to us all about, you know, our CEO. You can only imagine how flabbergasted I was to hear that Anderson might lie to us. So, thank you for the revelations. I'll try to do well on the exam, but I hope we're done after that.

The Legal curriculum is also getting a little tiresome, and maybe a little misguided. For the record, an internet pseudonym is not a cloaking device. And a person on your team that points out that you're actually volunteering for hostage duty is not a "hostile witness", or a management lackey. Here is an instance where you too could learn a lot form a dummy.

Finally, the Union Etiquette class needs to go. I'm sick of cyber-brave people telling others things here they wouldn't dare saying in person. I'm tired of the insinuation that we are towing management's line, just because we don't think anger and tanturms are actual strategies. Truth be told, we are all around about the same kind of people. I guess you guys chant fearsome insults before you go to battle, and I guess we have "Go D-A-L-P-A!" cheers, but still we're mostly the same kind of people. The only true difference has been in the environment we worked under, and the strategies we implemented to adapt. The last time we had a similar set of circumstance was in bankruptcy. I read both T/A's that resulted, and they're not exactly leading me to sign up for another semester of Northern Mythology.

So I'll agree to do a better job listening to any idea that can help improve our mutual situation. In return, I would like to be treated with a modicum of respect. You're not alone in being disgusted. And that's because there is much typing, so many lectures, but so little listening and reading going on here lately. It only gets better when people on both sides try to make it better.

Respecfully,

Sink r8.

keenster

Good point, but alot of things DAL-N guys are talking about are not contractual. But probably not worth getting into on this thread. Maybe we need a new thread on how to improve DAL.

Sink r8

I've agreed with you before: much of our stuff can be improved. But what do you think we've been doing post C2K? High-fiving each other about how good this is?

NO. We also want better. And if we haven't considered a way somehting can be better, then by all means, tell us.

But then what? What's then mechanism that gets us what we want? The answer is mostly Section 6, except in some cases where we can efefctively preesure the company. For that to happen, we need agreement on what's better. We're not going to get that when we don't have an intelligent discussion.

As was correctly stated above, you're suffering from buyer's remorse. As was also correctly stated above, we ALSO don't like our contract. I just want the same thing you do: MORE, and BETTER. But it was NOT correct that we sold you our contract. And if almost 90% of you bought it, and your leadership T/A'd, then you don't have much of a leg to stand on. The only thing to stand for s MORE, and BETTER, and the only place to stand is with each other.

That starts by cutting through some of the crap that this thread has been plastered with, of late.

Cogf16

I have been assigned ONE trip on reserve since Sep 1st. Can't understand why they're thinking about closing my category!

CVG 7ER

Free Bird

IMO you guys are using a pretty broad brush on the canvas with some of your statements about us Southerners.

Actually, I've flown with lots of F-DAL pilots that have been hoping that this merger would bring some change. Lots of folks on the South side have wanted change for years. We've had changes on the South side as a result of this merger too, nothing compared to what you guys have had to go through. Sorry guys, this is just how this thing went down. As ACL said, a majority of the FNWA folks voted on the Joint Contract.

If some items are that important to you I would suggest talking to a CP, Fleet Captain, mngt. type and or your elected Reps. That is all that any of us can really do. I think bringing up different ideas for discussion is great. Complaining about the South way is another issue. I think some on this board are getting the feeling that instead of "hey this could be better" we're hearing "The ways you guys do things sucks".

In reality I think we're all wanting to go to the same place, we're just all pulling in different directions. I think EVERYONE needs to relax a bit a take a moment to understand those that you disagree with.

In respect to this thread, Im going to go have a cold one as to to contribute to the relaxation. St. Pauli Girl here I come!

DAL330drvr

Today, all flights operated with a single "call sign", it's time we start rowing together.

There are many challenges ahead that we need to face with unity and resolve, some of them might come as early as this week. North, South, Pension, No-Pension, Red, Blue, Green, Purple, etc. etc. is all water under the bridge. We are all Delta pilots now.

We can repeat history, where pilots are usually their own worst enemies or we can change it by coming together and bringing this profession back to where it belongs. Divided we will fail, guaranteed!

keenster

Would not have a problem with your percentage equation, But here it is. Before Merger: NWA % 22 Retire at 3%. Post Merger: DAL 23% Retire at 13%. If I had my same retirement percentage I would not have a beef at all. DOH may be meaningless to you but not to me. Yes I lost and you won. Life goes on but I am tired of hearing about how fair percentages were. This is what it means for me. Retire at SN 1560 vs SN 360 quite a difference.