KC10 FATboy

You could probably legally not take the shot. However, if you were ever awarded a trip that went to a high risk area, DAL could remove you out of concerns for flight safety (yes, its a stretch) and then not pay you the guarantee. And/or, if you flew to the area and got sick, they would not have to provide you healthcare.

Model Citezen

Scoop,
The point that was trying to be made was which system delivers more money into pilots pockets. The other point was that the systems that both airlines used, should be looked at to achieve max dollars payout.

My rep told me that information WAS tracked and given at a MEC meeting and former NWA pilots more money (less pilots than DAL had... 5000 vs 7000). One month it was 4.5 times what the DAL side made (GS Flying)

I agree with you that the more time guys fly, slows down upgrades and the company will need LESS pilots on the property.

Maybe time and one half should start at 75. Its my understanding is that GS flying can only happen up to a few days before a trip left. At NWA I was always JR. in my seat. I was still able to get high time when I wanted it.

The other thing to consider..... If the company increases the ALV to 82 hours during the summer, EVERY pilot would benefit to the 1.5 times over 80.

I truly do not know what system is more beneficial , financially, to this pilot group.

For the record, I am in favor of working 75 hours MAX, but with much HIGHER pay rates!

Carl Spackler

I will accept either of those consequences as a result of my decision.

Carl

acl65pilot

But in this case you are dealing with the Japanese not the French. They are the No 2 or 3 economy in the world and own a passel of US debt. I doubt the Obama administration is even watching this and probably cares less what happens. In my 22 years of Flying to Japan the Japs are for the Japs and my guess is that the terms of this thing are going to be bad.


I agree and have made that point with out stating the administrations name. That makes what DAL does in this deal important. Our government does not see this as one sided, and the result of this deal going though without JAL could down right be ugly for our long term profitability in NRT.

They are smart and get what they want. I can also see us walking away from a bad deal as us walking away derails Open Skies. A bad deal for the company WILL be a bad one for us. Also, we as a union have slot guarantees in section 1. Even if they unilaterally drop them, it is greivable and more than likely winnable. We have protections. I guess we will see what they are worth. It will be as many fear, or once again, it will not be as bad as feared. Time will tell. The time-line is in their hands.

Also the Japanese are about saving face, and not taking the money is part of that.

Scoop

MC,

Well we have something in common because I also do not know which would be better. From my previous post you can probably gather that I tend to think the Green-slip option is better, and I will give the MEC guys the benefit of the doubt in this regard.

While paying out a lot more money in any given month sounds like a winner – would this hold up in the long run? Could more flying by a majority of Pilots slow down future hiring and advancement? Could this cancel any benefits of the above 80 hour @ 1.5 option? Intuitively I would say yes, but I am not sure.

I would be awfully leery of anything that may slow down long term advancement of the Pilot group. Then again, green-slips now require Pilots to fly more than 75 hours before the benefits kick in, so they are probably pushing up the average hours flown. But this probably will not raise the Pilot flight hours flown as much as the above 80 hour option. Then again, as with everything else, the affects of either system are probably not uniform throughout the seniority list. What might be a great deal for the Wide-body Captains may not benefit junior guys hoping to advance.

For the record, I am in favor of working 75 hours MAX, but with much HIGHER pay rates!

+1


Scoop

newKnow

What do you mean by them not providing healthcare?

NuGuy

Heyas Johsno,

I think what you're seeing is a good bit of "buyer's remorse" on the part of the NWA side.

We were sold this huge bill of goods by DALPA, and I'll be God damned that we didn't start to buy into some of the press along the lines of "well, they were pretty big, and that's a lot of pilots and something must be ok for it to run, and the DAL guys seem to think pretty well of it..."

Now that we have ALL transitioned into BP5 as well as switched over to other side admin wise, just about every one of us has faced the brick wall with regards to the impenetrable bureaucracy, bizarre and punitive paychecks, ridiculous Jepp revisions, visiting the computer software museum with backwards IT, manuals for 3rd graders, stepping back in time with regards to ACARS, a JS system designed by someone who obviously never commuted, home mailboxes chock full of continuing UHC surprises (long term prescriptions, anyone?) and the simplest of tasks made complicated by byzantine procedures (log landings, anyone?).

Then we finally stand up and say "W T F?" and not only do the fDAL guys stand around uninterested in listening to any suggestions for improvement, but start complaing that all we do is squawk about how backwards they are and how lucky we all are for simply stepping foot on hallowed ground..

Well, as the great Steve Martin would say: EXCUSE ME!

That, along with a DALPA that is seemingly complicit in facilitating the company line, yea, I can kinda see where some guys are getting a bit testy.

Nu

Ferd149

Nu,

Well put. I tried to say something along these lines earlier, but made the mistake to trying to write while irritated after reading about 10 pages of "stuff".

Well said lad,
Ferd <-------not worthy

keenster

Ferd,
The DAL-S guys only know one side of the coin. They are primed to the position that their way is the only way and do not want to hear that we "may" have a better way. We have to keep on telling them that there is a better way and sooner or later maybe we can convince a few and who knows. It will be an uphill battle and we will probably loose many issues but we have to try. One example: We showed DAL-S that it cost us 40,000 a year to have Honeywell load the database on the 747-400 for charters vs 2.5 million a year to do it the DAL south way and did not get anywhere. We can't stop trying or we turn in to the same company coolaide drinking guys(not everyone) we are trying to help improve things. So hang in there and keep on fighting. There are lots of battles going on and if you don't thing so you need to talk to the DAL-N guys who are on committies. We only want to make things better but we need to have open dialog on issues and discuss them. Over and out

buzzpat

In all honesty, you guys know I don't play this game most of the time. I banter back and forth with the jokes and the funny pix and that's about it. That being said Nu, I can honestly tell you there is a lot of "buyer's remorse" on our side as well. We were, in fact, "the buyers." In my opinion, what you are suffering from is "short sightedness." Sure, change is hard and you guys have had to endure most of the change. If you can't put down your "we had it better back in the day" compass and see that we are all better off for this marriage, then, quite frankly, you're a lost cause.

Pilots, by nature, are a bunch of selfish, short-sighted ego maniacs. I get that. I am one. But the constant whining and *****ing on this thread has become old. I really don't care what you think or how much your life sucks now, because you got a pay raise and you still have your retirement. I didn't and I don't. Talk about buyers remorse. Move on. Most of the rest of us have. 3rd grade manuals? You sound like my third grader.