Originally Posted by Check Essential

Section 23.A.35 of the contract lays out the formula.

Hope you're good at math.

(actually its not that complex, just a lot of inputs if you have training, vacation, etc.)

“Reserve assignment weighting” (RAW) means a value assigned to a reserve pilot that is
based on his accumulated credit in a bid period and his CROC days in a bid period. A
reserve pilot’s RAW is used to sequence him for assignment to open time. Such value
will be calculated using the following formula, rounded to the nearest integer:
Reserve assignment weighting = [(A ÷ C) x 75] + [(B ÷ D) x 100], where:
A = the reserve pilot’s credit hours accumulated in the bid period plus prorated credit
hours associated with his period of unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training
(other than qualification or distributed training), if any. The number of prorated
hours associated with his period of unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training
(other than qualification or distributed training) will be determined by multiplying the
number of days of his unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training (other than
qualification or distributed training) by the reserve guarantee and then dividing that
product by 30 or 31 (days of the bid period).
B = the reserve pilot’s CROC days plus prorated CROC days associated with his period
of absence other than sick leave, if any (e.g., vacation, training, MLOA, PLOA). The
number of prorated CROC days associated with his period of absence other than sick
leave will be determined by multiplying the number of days of his absence by 18 (oncall
days per bid period) and then dividing that product by 30 or 31 (days of the bid
period).
C = the reserve guarantee.
D = number of on-call days in a full month of reserve.

Originally Posted by maddogmax

Think I wil go with Madoggins answer.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Perfectly statedI don't get the second part. Both management and ALPA promoted and fought for a stand alone Delta. The numbers certainly supported this conclusion.

Then, that changed. It may have been the realization that the freight train was coming and the impact would be less severe if you were running in the same direction the train was going. But, I've never seen any numbers that remotely suggest the merger was good for Delta long term and only benefits the Delta pilots who are young enough to see NWA mostly go away by the time they hit their prime earning years.

Personally, this merger will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $150,000 to $200,000 (less contractual gains and stock award) until the potential to earn it back in the last ten years. You state that model is fatally flawed by the fact that the 07 hires would not even have jobs without the merger. Who knows? The numbers we can prove are the NWA fleet utilization, pre and post merger load factors and aircraft retirements. In contrast, I don't know how we prove the merger kept people in jobs OTHER than the effectiveness of D-ALPA's negotiations to ensure we kept our jobs.

We will see just how right, or wrong, my prognostications are. I'm still thinking September furlough notices with December reflectivity. That's how we are running the household finances and if I'm wrong, 2011 sure is time to buy a new car I'll take you and Carl to lunch in it if you two promise to behave in the back seat.

Originally Posted by slowplay

As you note, we continue to disagree on the "cost" versus "benefit" of this merger. Take a look at those numbers you posted earlier for either standalone company, subtract out the Amex cash and see where either airline would have been. You thought debt/equity was ugly before...debt service would have been a challenge for either airline. While you can state these next comments are hypothetical, I believe that the numbers support my case. Neither one would have been positioned independently to do the LGA transaction. Neither one would have independently been able to go after JAL against TPG/AMR. Neither one could have avoided some level of furlough (look at the Atlantic and Pacific losses for a guide). You're right, I can't PROVE something would or would not have happened. But you can draw a logical conclusion from the behavior of the rest of the industry and our comparitive financials. Every legacy carrier except merged DAL furloughed. Because of this I believe (and granted cannot prove) that the merger benefited all pilots tremendously.

Originally Posted by Herkflyr

Are you kidding me? You might as well mail in the NO vote right now.

Let's get real. We SHOULD and WILL get significant raises.

120%? Get real. What "should" we do going forward, both from a labor negotiating stance, and a management profit-making stance?

It is always easy to lob hand grenades from the sidelines and avoid the tough decisions. It's not so easy to actually suggest something concrete, along with specifics to justify and make credible your suggestions.

I remember when we first got the 777 at DAL. The highest paid airline pilots anywhere were NWA 747-400 captains at $220/hr. We opened at $346/hr. Eventually we "settled" at $265/hr, plus pay raises for the rest of the pilot group...and there were Monday-morning QBs suggesting we had "sold out."

Any wonder why no one takes these message boards seriously?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

We will see just how right, or wrong, my prognostications are. I'm still thinking September furlough notices with December reflectivity. That's how we are running the household finances and if I'm wrong, 2011 sure is time to buy a new car I'll take you and Carl to lunch in it if you two promise to behave in the back seat.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Ferd,

Slowplay's reply is excellent and I'm certainly not debating his conclusions. Although, darn, that 2011 Wimbledon White 302 Mustang GT (What's with this 5.0 stuff? ) sure would look nice sitting in the airport parking lot.

For any junior pilot organic growth beats a merger. Just accept it for the truth that it is ... nothing against our merger partner, it's operation and especially its' pilots. Every NWA pilot has been a great guy.

Cheers,
Bar

Originally Posted by Check Essential

Bar-
That was a very comprehensive and well thought out post detailing why management can't afford to pay the pilots anything near our old C2K rates and why we shouldn't expect too much improvement in the future.

I'm curious how you feel about our current pay and benefits.

If you were King, and could set our payrates right now, what would they be?
Would you give us all a pay cut due to lack of corporate profits?
Do you feel our current rates and benefits are just right?
Would you give us a raise? If so, how much?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Ferd,

Slowplay's reply is excellent and I'm certainly not debating his conclusions. Although, darn, that 2011 Wimbledon White 302 Mustang GT (What's with this 5.0 stuff? ) sure would look nice sitting in the airport parking lot.

For any junior pilot organic growth beats a merger. Just accept it for the truth that it is ... nothing against our merger partner, it's operation and especially its' pilots. Every NWA pilot has been a great guy.

Cheers,
Bar