UncleSam

Secondary vacation

maddogmax

Sorry to get back to boring things, but where can I find the formula for calculating ones RAW score on RSV or is it a secret. I am going to carry in 9+30 into Feb and am trying to anticipate what my RAW score might be when I go back on RSV on the 7th.

Jughead

20% ha! 20% doesn't even come close. We're working under 1990 payrates now - 20% might get us back to 1993 or so.

As far as the other work groups and their raises, best of luck to them. My union dues don't pay for their negotiations. Will they not like us anymore? Yeah - I feel the love everyday at work now -

Who would ever want to be king?

Maddoggin

A good guestimate is 10-11 points per day worked. That usually gets you pretty close.

Check Essential

Bar-
That was a very comprehensive and well thought out post detailing why management can't afford to pay the pilots anything near our old C2K rates and why we shouldn't expect too much improvement in the future.

I'm curious how you feel about our current pay and benefits.

If you were King, and could set our payrates right now, what would they be?
Would you give us all a pay cut due to lack of corporate profits?
Do you feel our current rates and benefits are just right?
Would you give us a raise? If so, how much?

tsquare

FDX is more similar to us than SWA will ever be. They are a bus service. Domestic only. We fly to more COUNTRIES than they do CITIES. No comparison IMO.

Herkflyr

Are you kidding me? You might as well mail in the NO vote right now.

Let's get real. We SHOULD and WILL get significant raises.

120%? Get real. What "should" we do going forward, both from a labor negotiating stance, and a management profit-making stance?

It is always easy to lob hand grenades from the sidelines and avoid the tough decisions. It's not so easy to actually suggest something concrete, along with specifics to justify and make credible your suggestions.

I remember when we first got the 777 at DAL. The highest paid airline pilots anywhere were NWA 747-400 captains at $220/hr. We opened at $346/hr. Eventually we "settled" at $265/hr, plus pay raises for the rest of the pilot group...and there were Monday-morning QBs suggesting we had "sold out."

Any wonder why no one takes these message boards seriously?

Check Essential

Section 23.A.35 of the contract lays out the formula.

Hope you're good at math.

(actually its not that complex, just a lot of inputs if you have training, vacation, etc.)

“Reserve assignment weighting” (RAW) means a value assigned to a reserve pilot that is
based on his accumulated credit in a bid period and his CROC days in a bid period. A
reserve pilot’s RAW is used to sequence him for assignment to open time. Such value
will be calculated using the following formula, rounded to the nearest integer:
Reserve assignment weighting = [(A ÷ C) x 75] + [(B ÷ D) x 100], where:
A = the reserve pilot’s credit hours accumulated in the bid period plus prorated credit
hours associated with his period of unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training
(other than qualification or distributed training), if any. The number of prorated
hours associated with his period of unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training
(other than qualification or distributed training) will be determined by multiplying the
number of days of his unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training (other than
qualification or distributed training) by the reserve guarantee and then dividing that
product by 30 or 31 (days of the bid period).
B = the reserve pilot’s CROC days plus prorated CROC days associated with his period
of absence other than sick leave, if any (e.g., vacation, training, MLOA, PLOA). The
number of prorated CROC days associated with his period of absence other than sick
leave will be determined by multiplying the number of days of his absence by 18 (oncall
days per bid period) and then dividing that product by 30 or 31 (days of the bid
period).
C = the reserve guarantee.
D = number of on-call days in a full month of reserve.

"CROC" day is a credited reserve on call day. (section 23.A.8)

slowplay

I think that you're overstating the numbers, plus it's my perspective that you misread the intent of the Creditor's Committee when they selected the Delta Board. We had just beaten back the USAirways hostile takeover (more "potential" money, but more risk for the creditors that we created/exploited), but ALPA's statements during that takeover were that we supported rational consolidation. The Airways takeover wasn't rational yet it still produced a split committee vote. The committee picked a Board that was pro-consolidation. Anderson was on that Board. You know the history after that.

We've seen this act before. While not a perfect comparison, it's the US Railroad industry in the 60's and 70's. We're down to 4 major railroads and a whole bunch of shortlines now. Those that didn't consolidate rationally have been carved up, sold off, bankrupted or abandoned. As labor we get to choose which path we want to influence all the other stakeholders to take. Do we want to be the Pennsylvania (former largest railroad), Penn Central, Conrail, or Norfolk Southern and CSX?

Personally I'd like to be working for a profitable survivor.

As you note, we continue to disagree on the "cost" versus "benefit" of this merger. Take a look at those numbers you posted earlier for either standalone company, subtract out the Amex cash and see where either airline would have been. You thought debt/equity was ugly before...debt service would have been a challenge for either airline. While you can state these next comments are hypothetical, I believe that the numbers support my case. Neither one would have been positioned independently to do the LGA transaction. Neither one would have independently been able to go after JAL against TPG/AMR. Neither one could have avoided some level of furlough (look at the Atlantic and Pacific losses for a guide). You're right, I can't PROVE something would or would not have happened. But you can draw a logical conclusion from the behavior of the rest of the industry and our comparative financials. Every legacy carrier except merged DAL furloughed. Because of this I believe (and granted cannot prove) that the merger benefited all pilots tremendously.

Two points.

1. September furloughs are still possible. It all depends on what's happening around us. If there is a Middle East war, interruption of the oil supply, another large scale terror attack, or general economic meltdown, it's very possible. All the analysts are seeing it differently right now. Of course they didn't see Hussein's invasion of Kuwait in '90, 9-11, or any other external event that had substantial impact on our career. Personally, I see improving conditions and a brighter future in the near term for our airline.

We work in the airline industry. Furloughs are always possible, no matter what your seniority number. How's number one at EAL, BNF, MEH, or 170+ other airlines since deregulation doing?

2. 2011 won't be the time to spend. It'll be the time to continue to save, because when our interests are no longer aligned with management there could be conflict. It will require creative labor and management leadership to maintain that alignment. Many believe as the Battleship captains did prior to World War II, that the big guns are supreme and are arguing for a tactical change. They're looking to post a set of demands just because "we're entitled", then sail up and down the coast in smart formation in an intimidating fashion. They forget that their guns only have a range of 26 miles, leaving most targets outside of their scope, and while they may look impressive, they're not very relevant. They're no longer Captains of the true Capital ships. The good news is that all those that think that way are wearing the correct uniform to look like nautical royalty...

If we find that creative management and labor leadership, we will avoid unnecessary conflict and make a bigger pie for us all to feast from. If we don't, well, there's history to guide us on how short term our "success" might be.

slowplay

Delta's adjusted net debt (debt and capital leases that have to be serviced) I believe is about $17 Billion. Delta's total liabilities are $44 billion.