Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
![slowplay is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/clear.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Cog, that's going to happen. That is the reality of the situation... when guys are pushed and stressed, they will stretch it where they can.
I agree absolutely that sick time should be used only for being sick. However...we (as in pilots in general) also shouldn't be pushed into temptation either, right?
I agree absolutely that sick time should be used only for being sick. However...we (as in pilots in general) also shouldn't be pushed into temptation either, right?
![Cogf16 is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![80ktsClamp is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Anybody wanna guess who I'm pulling for in the Super Bowl?
![tsquare is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Well I for one will be avoiding the US sports media for the next two weeks. The airwaves and the ether will be filled with stories about the hurricane and how Bush sucked. No matter what your political persuasion, the politicization of the sports media is annoying. They should talk about more pertinent things like the Naughright Incidnet. ![Big Grin](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I'm sure I will be in some foreign garden spot the night of the Super Bowl. Or maybe I'll follow Carl's lead and call in sick on Super Sunday because It's all about me, right?
![Big Grin](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I'm sure I will be in some foreign garden spot the night of the Super Bowl. Or maybe I'll follow Carl's lead and call in sick on Super Sunday because It's all about me, right?
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![satchip is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Well I for one will be avoiding the US sports media for the next two weeks. The airwaves and the ether will be filled with stories about the hurricane and how Bush sucked. No matter what your political persuasion, the politicization of the sports media is annoying. They should talk about more pertinent things like the Naughright Incidnet. ![Big Grin](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I'm sure I will be in some foreign garden spot the night of the Super Bowl. Or maybe I'll follow Carl's lead and call in sick on Super Sunday because It's all about me, right?![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![Big Grin](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I'm sure I will be in some foreign garden spot the night of the Super Bowl. Or maybe I'll follow Carl's lead and call in sick on Super Sunday because It's all about me, right?
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Did ya hear that urbie's health is fine, and he's gonna be back for the spring game? Bwaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa
![tsquare is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,431
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Alfa,
Could you please explain to a "dense" guy (me) who cannot quite see how using sick leave takes money out of your pocket? To me, sick leave is a negotiated item for the duration of a contract. During the course of that contract using or not using sick leave does not take away anything from anyone or give anything to anyone for not using it. Once the contract is negotiated, the use of sick leave, in my book, is a moot point. It's a cost to the company of doing business.
I'm not condoning using sick leave for anything other than being sick. But I just cannot wrap my mind around how this is taking compensation away from anyone.
Denny
Could you please explain to a "dense" guy (me) who cannot quite see how using sick leave takes money out of your pocket? To me, sick leave is a negotiated item for the duration of a contract. During the course of that contract using or not using sick leave does not take away anything from anyone or give anything to anyone for not using it. Once the contract is negotiated, the use of sick leave, in my book, is a moot point. It's a cost to the company of doing business.
I'm not condoning using sick leave for anything other than being sick. But I just cannot wrap my mind around how this is taking compensation away from anyone.
Denny
But, if you could not do that (i.e. can't fire a guy for sick leave abuse) then you better believe that premiums for everyone would jump up rather quickly--a perfect example of a few selfish "my insurance limits and claim history are mine to be used as I see fit" types ruining it for everyone else.
Of course, from a statistical sense, you do have the high insurance limits for the RARE occasion of your house burning down, car being totaled, etc. Insurance companies can make a pretty decent statistical guess how many of those events that they will end up insuring over time. Therefore in a similar manner we have a lot of sick hours available for not only the occasional sore back or nasty cold, but for the broken leg or post-surgery recovery period.
But no one goes into a policy thinking, "gee, if I don't total my car next year, then I have just 'wasted' all that insurance premium" and similarly, you shouldn't go into a year thinking, "if I don't burn all my sick time I have somehow 'lost.'"
Call in sick when you are sick. Don't call in sick when you aren't. By the way, unlike some koolaid-drinking types, I will acknowledge that it is not necessarily YOU who has to be the sick one. If your kid is sick, and your spouse can't be there, then you are in no position to be flying airplanes. You shouldn't have to take a trip drop without pay to take care of the most important think in your life. I think it entirely appropriate to use sick leave for that.
But don't use sick leave just so you can turn a week's vacation into two. Also, don't NOT call in sick (and therefore sicken everyone you are flying with) and wear it as some perverted badge of honor, as some used to do back in the more inbred years of DAL.
![Herkflyr is online now](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_online.gif)
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Heyas Cog,
Yea, that's how I read his post, too.
Anything other than first come first served, and this place would be full of unhappy campers.
I asked him for more details on what he would like to see, but I guess this rugby scrum we call a conversation is a bit much sometimes...
Nu
Yea, that's how I read his post, too.
Anything other than first come first served, and this place would be full of unhappy campers.
I asked him for more details on what he would like to see, but I guess this rugby scrum we call a conversation is a bit much sometimes...
Nu
So, in the interest of rucking over the Jumpseat ball......Seniority based J/S? No F-ing way!
![Mad](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/mad.gif)
Gnewt
![Gnewt is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 86
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
During the negotiation for the next contract it is a big deal (our 1113 case, for example). Management showed total sick leave costs (total pilot pay hours) that were way out of sync with the rest of the industry. When sick leave was modified, the total costs went down over 25% year over year (close to industry), which wasn't because of the change in sick pay, but because the change in the number of pilots calling in sick. That change in sick pay cost every pilot that needed the old hours and full vice 75% pay. For those that used sick pay as "platinum" days, there was no change.
Did the change in pay cause pilots to get sick less or fly sick more? That's a different discussion, but our LTD rate is closer to industry norm now, which is an indicator of behavioral changes.
Did the change in pay cause pilots to get sick less or fly sick more? That's a different discussion, but our LTD rate is closer to industry norm now, which is an indicator of behavioral changes.
I think you are missing one big demographic point. What happened about 12 months before bankruptcy? 2,500 very senior pilots left the Company. Most of them were between the ages of 53 and 60. That age group has higher sick usage than any other demographic. This dynamic has to be factored into the drop in over all usage.
![remlap is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
![Default](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
You are looking at it correctly for a snapshot in time. During the term of any contract there is minimal impact (very minor profit sharing, premium pay, and potential operational disruption costs). During the negotiation for the next contract it is a big deal (our 1113 case, for example). Management showed total sick leave costs (total pilot pay hours) that were way out of sync with the rest of the industry. When sick leave was modified, the total costs went down over 25% year over year (close to industry), which wasn't because of the change in sick pay, but because the change in the number of pilots calling in sick. That change in sick pay cost every pilot that needed the old hours and full vice 75% pay. For those that used sick pay as "platinum" days, there was no change.
Did the change in pay cause pilots to get sick less or fly sick more? That's a different discussion, but our LTD rate is closer to industry norm now, which is an indicator of behavioral changes.
Sick leave is just one component of our compensation package, but it is costed just as medical benefits, retirement, pay, and rules/rigs are costed.
Did the change in pay cause pilots to get sick less or fly sick more? That's a different discussion, but our LTD rate is closer to industry norm now, which is an indicator of behavioral changes.
Sick leave is just one component of our compensation package, but it is costed just as medical benefits, retirement, pay, and rules/rigs are costed.
Can you provide some additional background into the numbers and analysis that was performed. I would certainly hope that just because management "showed a __% increase/decrease" in sick leave costs that there was more analysis than just a total block hours vs sick called hrs (way to simple of a number that does not tell any story).
Also, are you talking about the cost of sick to the company or is it just purely on an hourly basis?
I don't like it when percentages get thrown into an argument because they are so often irrelevant when truly analyzed.
Just to play devils advocate, what were the trips like that were called in sick for (could pairing construction be a contributing factor in the use of sick leave)?
![1234 is offline](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post