Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

There are two schools out there: hardline and work with management. So far, work with management is showing real gains (albeit smaller than we "deserve"); whereas hard line is showing zilch.

So.... I suggest YOU acknowledge ways the current plan is working; rather than strive to change into a strategy that, so far, has produced nothing but failure.

Originally Posted by Rhino Driver

I don't think that's true. I seem to remember that we had the choice to pay or not to pay during INDOC. I believe it was 1.5%, but not sure. Anyway, if you decided not to join, that 1.5% still came out of your pay and I believe went to Mother D for something else. Anyone that can clarify what I'm trying to say, please help out.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

I do Carl. That's why DALPA pilots got to benefit from pay raises and increased DC contributions effective 1/1/10, whereas APA pilots continue to get zilch.

But at least they're furloughing now....

There are two schools out there: hardline and work with management. So far, work with management is showing real gains (albeit smaller than we "deserve"); whereas hard line is showing zilch.

So.... I suggest YOU acknowledge ways the current plan is working; rather than strive to change into a strategy that, so far, has produced nothing but failure.

Originally Posted by Ferd149

PG

Not so fast. There was nothing organized or pushed, but a bunch of pi$$ed off guys got a few things back after the bankruptcy cram down. We got block or better pay (BOB) time and a half over 80 hours and full pay for deadheading (vs 50%) and those are the one I can quickly think of off the top of my head.

And no, we didn't give anything to get them back.....they did it to get US back on their side vs us trying to get THEM on our side.

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Heyas Carl,

Well, there ARE ways to work within the system.

Dues check-off is HUGE. Twice a month, the company probably wire transfers a HUGE sum of cash to ALPA.

Dues check off is OPTIONAL. One could simply elect to opt out, and you'd revert to normal billing.

ALPA would then be forced to send you a bill (mailing/postage/handling). Then you'd get the bill, where it would sit on your desk for X amount of time until it was due. Then you'd pay it, preferably by check, and it would go via the US SNAIL to Herdon. Then more handling/processing. Then it takes a few more days for the check as to clear....and so on and so on.

If you look at the time frame involved, ALPA no doubt makes some serious bank on just the float. But if you opt out, instead of getting your money NOW, they'd get it some 28 days later, not to mention the increase in costs due to billing/postage/handling.

And guess what? Since you pay your bill on time, you remain firmly in good standing. You're not even stretching the rules to make it happen, but simply utilizing a mechanism already in place.

It's like switching back from pay-online to writing a check. It's simply a choice.

Usually the spin from the spin-masters is that "you don't want to risk going into bad standing". This threat is almost laughable. It takes a CONVOLUTED process for you to get that far, such as missing multiple billings, each of which offers multiple times for you to get square. Plus most guys are pretty much capable of handling a bill...every month, thousands of DAL pilots manage to pay their mortgage and electric bills without their homes falling into default or getting the lights switched off.

Nu

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I was going to show you where you continue to be wrong, but Ferd responded better than I:

Carl

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

When required, BOB and "fly safe" are extremely effective tools and 100% legal.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

I do Carl. That's why DALPA pilots got to benefit from pay raises and increased DC contributions effective 1/1/10, whereas APA pilots continue to get zilch.

But at least they're furloughing now....

There are two schools out there: hardline and work with management. So far, work with management is showing real gains (albeit smaller than we "deserve"); whereas hard line is showing zilch.

So.... I suggest YOU acknowledge ways the current plan is working; rather than strive to change into a strategy that, so far, has produced nothing but failure.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Indeed. But it can be a little uncomfortable...if you wear a grass skirt.

Carl

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

That sounds quite itchy for 14 hours. I bet that thing looks snazzy with the double breasted coat, though.


I do like the logic of the current ALPA position. There, I said it! If we can get continual gains and continually improve the contract, that sounds great. The RLA is so jacked up anyways that this method may be a nice end around to the gridlock like Pinnacle and the APA are having (Pinnacle's contract is 11 years old...).

There is a very fine line between going too far in that direction... Pineapple Guy is an oustanding illustration of that. He is the unionoid that we love to hate and do not trust one bit. (I've come to respect slow's logic over time, go figure. The rhetoric still gets annoying at times, though) While he tries to bring others to "his side" of thinking, he is actually turning people away because his examples are just so horrendously terrible.

When someone points out an issue, and they simply point to the APA as a "hey look, they are worse." That is not an effective communication method. It's like comparing 2 turds. "That one smells worse, and look, ours has a flower growing on it!" Then there is the whole having to give something up to get something issue. I don't think I need to expand upon that.

edit: As far as the APA- I really don't think we should even be comparing ourselves to them. They are a jacked up union and always have been. Sure, it may make you feel better...but it doesnt do anything to improve our situation.

With that, I'm eagerly awaiting the JAL JV agreement.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

+1 Leon, you're not just an expert in the ways of love but in the ways of words.



Wait wait, this one's better... that 80 Knots Clamp, he can make the complicated simple whether you're a happy go lucky new hire (right) or require size 10 font on the dot matrix printers (left).