Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-22-2010, 06:00 AM
Happy to be here
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01-22-2010, 06:08 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
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You're not seriously trying to say that the UAL MEC (a bunch of pilots) sat down in a room and split up that $550 million without a swarm of ALPA lawyers and benefit specialists advising them and watching their every move.
01-22-2010, 06:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: LAX 350 A
Posts: 564
I'm surprised no one has broken the code. This lawsuit is just a continuation of the long standing efforts to rid this country of unions. Does anyone in their right mind really think, even if we did what Burn suggests, we would EVER, EVER, EVER be allowed to do any type of a work action? No way. When you have two very "labor friendly" members of an NMB and that NMB has told APA to essentially pound sand, and they should never expect to be released to strike, what makes you think another strike at a single major carrier (much less two who control an entire city the size of ATL) would ever occur?
Not a chance.
And because the piloting profession has been beaten down so badly, we turn on ourselves clawing and fighting for every last scrap. That's exactly what happened here. UAL gave the pilots a pot of money and let them fight over it. No surprise, a court could find something that it didn't like, and with a pot of money that large, the risk of loss was so large, ALPA had to settle.
What makes you think that would be any different with a stand alone union? There will always be pilots who think of themselves and will find a class action attorney to sue (at no cost to the pilot) so they can take something from their fellow pilots. Sadly, that's typical pilot behavior.
Not a chance.
And because the piloting profession has been beaten down so badly, we turn on ourselves clawing and fighting for every last scrap. That's exactly what happened here. UAL gave the pilots a pot of money and let them fight over it. No surprise, a court could find something that it didn't like, and with a pot of money that large, the risk of loss was so large, ALPA had to settle.
What makes you think that would be any different with a stand alone union? There will always be pilots who think of themselves and will find a class action attorney to sue (at no cost to the pilot) so they can take something from their fellow pilots. Sadly, that's typical pilot behavior.
Bottom line PG is that we are the ones releasing the brakes. Even if the NMB would not release us, we have other options. This group has got to get out of the "march into battle" attitude that the current MEC leadership has driven into our heads. We get what we demand in our PWA and not a penny more. For some reason there is a mind set that Mother Delta is going to reward us for being good boys and girls. As you stated above:
NOT A CHANCE
BD
01-22-2010, 06:15 AM
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Position: LAX 350 A
Posts: 564
You stated that there were secretaries making 6 figures. There's not a single secretary on that list. Also, that list is 4 years old and there's no overtime for Unit II folks anymore like there was in 2006.
It's interesting how two faced some can be...whine and complain about the paycuts they've endured, but then attacking those that work for them because they haven't taken as significant a cut. I guess that perspective comes from Fox "News"
It's interesting how two faced some can be...whine and complain about the paycuts they've endured, but then attacking those that work for them because they haven't taken as significant a cut. I guess that perspective comes from Fox "News"
01-22-2010, 06:38 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
It may be premature to talk about decertification, but at some point there needs to be accountability. ALPA National has a whole building full of Benefit Administators, R&I Specialists, labor attorneys and others who are paid well into six figures. Their entire reason for being is to avoid this kind of disaster. Those people have failed us miserably.
Funny, how previous to this, all I heard people complain about was how the **** lawyers at ALPA were TOO conservative, and handcuffed MECs into making wimpie decisions. That the MECs should ignore that advice, stand up, and be "tough".
Now you blame those same lawyers....
01-22-2010, 06:41 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
You stated that there were secretaries making 6 figures. There's not a single secretary on that list. Also, that list is 4 years old and there's no overtime for Unit II folks anymore like there was in 2006.
It's interesting how two faced some can be...whine and complain about the paycuts they've endured, but then attacking those that work for them because they haven't taken as significant a cut. I guess that perspective comes from Fox "News"
It's interesting how two faced some can be...whine and complain about the paycuts they've endured, but then attacking those that work for them because they haven't taken as significant a cut. I guess that perspective comes from Fox "News"
Gotta disagree. Turning the knives inward toward each other is something you'd learn from those that don't like labor...Olberman and Maddow like labor
Just so I understand your point of view, if management reduced its ranks by 35% and took some significant compensation cuts, your corollary would be that labor would have no right to complain? Am I understanding you correctly?
Just so I understand your point of view, if management reduced its ranks by 35% and took some significant compensation cuts, your corollary would be that labor would have no right to complain? Am I understanding you correctly?
So if people are mad they have the right to be mad. If they're mad about UAL then they really have the right too. We have money taken out of our salaries, we have a union we want to be in, we just don't want the money wasted or spent unwisely and since we pay the bills we get to set the rules and complain.
As to management, they don't work for me, I work them. If they cut salaries and staffing I'd be worried about the health of the airline, same with the union staff.
So just to clarify, I'm not for turning the knives inward per se either though but we do not want to see someone waste our money. Trust but verify. Don't have staff salaries increase while pilots are in furlough (speaking of ALPA national), don't throw six figure parties at the Waldorf or take Christmas off during contract negotiations to give the staff a break. Its bad form.
01-22-2010, 06:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
01-22-2010, 06:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
I'm surprised no one has broken the code. This lawsuit is just a continuation of the long standing efforts to rid this country of unions. Does anyone in their right mind really think, even if we did what Burn suggests, we would EVER, EVER, EVER be allowed to do any type of a work action? No way. When you have two very "labor friendly" members of an NMB and that NMB has told APA to essentially pound sand, and they should never expect to be released to strike, what makes you think another strike at a single major carrier (much less two who control an entire city the size of ATL) would ever occur?
Not a chance.
And because the piloting profession has been beaten down so badly, we turn on ourselves clawing and fighting for every last scrap. That's exactly what happened here. UAL gave the pilots a pot of money and let them fight over it. No surprise, a court could find something that it didn't like, and with a pot of money that large, the risk of loss was so large, ALPA had to settle.
What makes you think that would be any different with a stand alone union? There will always be pilots who think of themselves and will find a class action attorney to sue (at no cost to the pilot) so they can take something from their fellow pilots. Sadly, that's typical pilot behavior.
Not a chance.
And because the piloting profession has been beaten down so badly, we turn on ourselves clawing and fighting for every last scrap. That's exactly what happened here. UAL gave the pilots a pot of money and let them fight over it. No surprise, a court could find something that it didn't like, and with a pot of money that large, the risk of loss was so large, ALPA had to settle.
What makes you think that would be any different with a stand alone union? There will always be pilots who think of themselves and will find a class action attorney to sue (at no cost to the pilot) so they can take something from their fellow pilots. Sadly, that's typical pilot behavior.
+ 1. Right on. Why not just find a group of people to fix what's wrong with ALPA?
01-22-2010, 06:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Bottom line PG is that we are the ones releasing the brakes. Even if the NMB would not release us, we have other options. This group has got to get out of the "march into battle" attitude that the current MEC leadership has driven into our heads. We get what we demand in our PWA and not a penny more.
How'd that work the last time a pilot group (APA) tried it? At least the $44m ALPA settlement will be spread among an organization with 50,000 pilots and deeper pockets, as opposed to the $45m judgement against APA with 10,000 pilots and no pockets.
Good thinking there, bigdaddie. I hope you're never in charge. I won't be able to afford all of the "benefits" your negotiating style is going to send my way.
01-22-2010, 06:49 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
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