Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-20-2010, 07:10 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
How many labor groups have received any stock for participating in a merger? Who helped negotiate that DAL pilots received 5.6% of the merged company ($650 million at todays stock price)?
What does it take to impress you if $2 billion in industry unique returns doesn't? I haven't even gone into the value of the ALPA claim from the DAL bankruptcy (14% of the company) that was presold at a far higher average price than the average creditor....
The common theme in all those transactions was Athena. If that's ALPA cronyism, I'll take those results any day!
The common theme in all those transactions was Athena. If that's ALPA cronyism, I'll take those results any day!
Personally, my only issue was the issues that surrounded the stock and the sale of it.(or lack of a sale. I know why it could not be sold, I just wanted to be the one doing the selling from the get-go) I wanted the stock deposited directly in to my account. I did not want it sold. In the end the back and forth allowed it to arrive in my account at a near all time low. Good for my 401K strategy, but the process was messy.
For you information Slow, I know you are trying to keep me in line as I have been more Pro-ALPA and DALPA decisions as of late. Good on you. For your information, it was a mild note of displeasure.
01-20-2010, 07:29 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Sorry if my response to your post added to the confusion. As you know, I enjoy a good debate/discussion...
Disagreements based on facts are the most enlightening!
01-20-2010, 07:36 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Far from it, sir, just using your post as a spring board to provide a different point of view than those reflected in earlier posts (not by you). We as a group easily remember what we lost, but seldom remember what was returned, who participated in that return, and how unique those returns were in the real world in which we operate.
Sorry if my response to your post added to the confusion. As you know, I enjoy a good debate/discussion... Disagreements based on facts are the most enlightening!
Sorry if my response to your post added to the confusion. As you know, I enjoy a good debate/discussion...
Disagreements based on facts are the most enlightening!
I agree facts are very important, and most of the group are emotionally charged after the last half decade. Sick and tired of being sick and tired comes to mind.
Yes, we received a lot of money, not getting taxed up front would have been nice, but government sometimes does not work that way.
As for our R and I guys. I have a ton of respect for them. Given the environment both in regards to investments, options, and the airline environment they have done a stellar job. We have decent options, and the option to work our own money. I have not seen that too many places.
You know I just want more communication. I see some of that happening, and it makes me "Pleasantly Surprised" to see input taken. I give credit where it is due. Keep it up. We have a lot of work to do in regard to that and yes, NDA's can hamper that at times. Sometimes too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
01-20-2010, 07:54 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Who helped devise the strategy that resulted in UAUA and DAL pilots being paid a Note due to freed up corporate funds after a pension termination? How many of the other 70,000 + DB terminations resulted in immediate returns to plan participants?....
How many labor groups have received any stock for participating in a merger? Who helped negotiate that DAL pilots received 5.6% of the merged company ($650 million at todays stock price)?
What did the pilots have to give up or more accurately relax inorder to make this merger work
What does it take to impress you if $2 billion in industry unique returns doesn't? I haven't even gone into the value of the ALPA claim from the DAL bankruptcy (14% of the company) that was presold at a far higher average price than the average creditor....
Do not even begin to suggest that it was ALPA and Stephen Presser that provided the higher valuation to the claim. Everyone knows that this is not the case.
The common theme in all those transactions was Athena. If that's ALPA cronyism, I'll take those results any day!
How many labor groups have received any stock for participating in a merger? Who helped negotiate that DAL pilots received 5.6% of the merged company ($650 million at todays stock price)?
What did the pilots have to give up or more accurately relax inorder to make this merger work
What does it take to impress you if $2 billion in industry unique returns doesn't? I haven't even gone into the value of the ALPA claim from the DAL bankruptcy (14% of the company) that was presold at a far higher average price than the average creditor....
Do not even begin to suggest that it was ALPA and Stephen Presser that provided the higher valuation to the claim. Everyone knows that this is not the case.
The common theme in all those transactions was Athena. If that's ALPA cronyism, I'll take those results any day!
What is Athena?
Who is Stephen Presser?
What did he do before Aethna?
What is his past connection to ALPA?
How much was he paid by ALPA and the pilots of Delta/Northwest to "sell" stock for us ?
01-20-2010, 08:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,576
Sailing,
Thanks. That makes sense as I wanted to divide my 4 weeks into 2 vacation periods in different months. Now as far as my reinstatement(March). Will I need to rebid my entire vacation for my new(old) position and if so will I be notified?
Thanks. That makes sense as I wanted to divide my 4 weeks into 2 vacation periods in different months. Now as far as my reinstatement(March). Will I need to rebid my entire vacation for my new(old) position and if so will I be notified?
Delta only awards you one vacation per round of bidding. You can't be awarded two different weeks. You can bid a 2 or 3 week block but it has to be together. The reason for this is it gives junior pilots a chance at a decent week of vacation on their primary since it will trump the secondary and beyond of a senior guy. The same thing goes for move up vacation awards. If you are trying to move your primary week it is worked first and you would get a week even if a senior pilot had requested a move up with his secondary week.
We could change it to award all the weeks at once but if you are junior pilot plan on every week of your vacation being in late Jan and Feb.
We could change it to award all the weeks at once but if you are junior pilot plan on every week of your vacation being in late Jan and Feb.
01-20-2010, 08:25 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
The thing about Rush is they are, primarily, a musician's band. What appeals to the ear of someone who plays an instrument does not necessarily appeal to the musical masses. That's how we get the Taylor Swifts, Kelly Clarksons, and Jonas Brothers. The perfect 4 minute pop song is more or less lost on a technical musician, much as the technical beauty of four musicians playing four different instruments in four different times and actually making it work the way the Allman Brothers did on "In Memory of Elisabeth Reed" is completely lost on the casual listener.
From a technical standpoint, Rush is an amazing band. However, for the most part, they were never a radio-ready band. Now, you can debate playing to your strengths and making the music you like versus making a Top 40 single and making a few million bucks all you like. No right or wrong answer.
Personally, I'll take a band like Rush over a band like, say, Coldplay any day. I just appreciate the music more.
Of course, the downside of all that is you really tick your wife off when you replay a 30 second clip of a song on your iPod over and over and say, "See? You see what they did there? You understand the reference in those lyrics? You see how much they've matured as a band?" Thankfully, she's a patient woman.
Then again, this thread is about college football (I think), and I'd hate to be accused of thread creep, so back to the "Lane Kiffin sucks" show....
I'll be listening to "La Villa Strangiato" until Vandy beats Tennessee again.
From a technical standpoint, Rush is an amazing band. However, for the most part, they were never a radio-ready band. Now, you can debate playing to your strengths and making the music you like versus making a Top 40 single and making a few million bucks all you like. No right or wrong answer.
Personally, I'll take a band like Rush over a band like, say, Coldplay any day. I just appreciate the music more.
Of course, the downside of all that is you really tick your wife off when you replay a 30 second clip of a song on your iPod over and over and say, "See? You see what they did there? You understand the reference in those lyrics? You see how much they've matured as a band?" Thankfully, she's a patient woman.
Then again, this thread is about college football (I think), and I'd hate to be accused of thread creep, so back to the "Lane Kiffin sucks" show....
I'll be listening to "La Villa Strangiato" until Vandy beats Tennessee again.
Nice summary of musical differences between the sexes. I will never understand the popularity of American idol for this very reason. I guess it's watching the train wreck of a human being when cowell belittles anyone he feels isn't "worthy" of his blessing as having talent.
I'm not sure that I agree totally (and maybe my impression of what you are saying is incorrect) that newer bands are not as good as older ones like Rush... I play music too, and I definitely appreciate the technical aspects of Rush (among others), but time is always kind to music and those that play it. God forbid that is the case with...ugh.. rap, but I guess anything is possible. Actually for the past year or so I have been listening to bluegrass, and since you seem to appreciate technical abilities and talent... give it a try sometime. Some of those people can flat out play...
01-20-2010, 08:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 132
Neil is certainly one of the great drummers! It really depends on individual preferences (style of music preferred, etc.) as to who would be considered "the best that ever played". As a drummer myself for 35 years, my vote is for this guy:
YouTube - Buddy Rich - 1970
YouTube - Buddy Rich - 1970
YouTube - Buddy Rich Chews Out His Band
01-20-2010, 08:36 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL 7ER FO
Posts: 98
I'm sure a Delta-S guy will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you will have to rebid any vacation that falls after your conversion month (which for you sounds like March). Only Mandatory Displacements get to keep their vacations is how I understand it.
01-20-2010, 09:00 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
OK. Time for some basic disclosure.
What did the pilots have to give up or more accurately relax inorder to make this merger work
The same things that the NWA Flight Attendants and IAM had to give up. The same things the Reno pilots gave up with AMR. The same things that the WAL and PAA pilots gave up with DAL. The same things that the Republic/NWA pilots gave up....
We did something that had never been done before. Clear enough?
Do not even begin to suggest that it was ALPA and Stephen Presser that provided the higher valuation to the claim. Everyone knows that this is not the case.
I'm not suggesting it. I stated it. You got something to disprove it? BTW, we were the second largest stakeholder. Take a look at SEC disclosures and you'll see that we got far more than the largest stakeholder, and a lot more than a couple of financial houses that got claims smaller than ours. It's that apples to apples comparison thing...
What is Athena?
An Investment Banking firm.
Who is Stephen Presser?
One of the principals of Athena.
What did he do before Aethna?
He was a Harvard law graduate and full time attorney with Cohen, Weiss and Simon through 1993. He left their practice in 1996 to become an investment banker.
What is his past connection to ALPA?
He worked for ALPA's outside counsel from the early 1980's through 1996.
How much was he paid by ALPA and the pilots of Delta/Northwest to "sell" stock for us ?
What did the pilots have to give up or more accurately relax inorder to make this merger work
The same things that the NWA Flight Attendants and IAM had to give up. The same things the Reno pilots gave up with AMR. The same things that the WAL and PAA pilots gave up with DAL. The same things that the Republic/NWA pilots gave up....
We did something that had never been done before. Clear enough?
Do not even begin to suggest that it was ALPA and Stephen Presser that provided the higher valuation to the claim. Everyone knows that this is not the case.
I'm not suggesting it. I stated it. You got something to disprove it? BTW, we were the second largest stakeholder. Take a look at SEC disclosures and you'll see that we got far more than the largest stakeholder, and a lot more than a couple of financial houses that got claims smaller than ours. It's that apples to apples comparison thing...
What is Athena?
An Investment Banking firm.
Who is Stephen Presser?
One of the principals of Athena.
What did he do before Aethna?
He was a Harvard law graduate and full time attorney with Cohen, Weiss and Simon through 1993. He left their practice in 1996 to become an investment banker.
What is his past connection to ALPA?
He worked for ALPA's outside counsel from the early 1980's through 1996.
How much was he paid by ALPA and the pilots of Delta/Northwest to "sell" stock for us ?
It's clear that you want to attack the man and the firm rather than deal with the facts. Just reviewing the history (again)...there were over $2 billion in returns generated for ALPA pilots with Athena's participation where nobody else had achieved returns. If that's ALPA cronyism, I'll take some more of it.
Where's your beef?
01-20-2010, 09:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
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