Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-11-2010, 08:13 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
They do. I have their pay chart right here. What is the point? I am not saying there are not issues at ALPA, are you?
My point in the first sentence was that if you can win just give up, de-certify ALPA and just give up is kind of like slapping yourself.
It is hard to stack the deck in our favor, the system is set up that way, and is magnified now that we are well past deregulation. What we can do it not stack it against us.
My point in the first sentence was that if you can win just give up, de-certify ALPA and just give up is kind of like slapping yourself.
It is hard to stack the deck in our favor, the system is set up that way, and is magnified now that we are well past deregulation. What we can do it not stack it against us.
A decertification of alpa matters not to me one way or the other. From a personaly POV, I just feel they are too bureaucratic for the benefits gained from the organisation. Again, personally, I want to know why his royal highness hasn't been coming to LEC meetings to inform us personally about his agenda. He OWES us that much.. We are after all the largest pilot group within his pervue. But I have digressed enough about all this. Logically, in many ways, I agree with your arguments. Sometimes I get tired of being told that while I have both hands tied behind the chair with the bottom cut out.. and somebody grabbing a big rope with a knot in the end how it could be worse.. (know the movie reference?) and I am supposed to take solace in that thought. Of course I want DAL to make as much money as possible.. Of course I want DAL to be successful. I am not stupid enough to think at all otherwise. I just find it interesting at times when I see other pilots (not specifically you ACL) doing corporates' job of managing expectations... I'll let this go for now. I have actually already broken a New Year's resolution by talking about this stuff. So... How bout my BIG ORANGE? Truly Volunteers last night.
01-11-2010, 08:17 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
There is a ton of low hanging fruit. There is some higher up in the tree to that we should go after.
Lets not mince what I am trying to say.
Point to my rant is that if you think that JAL is not a good deal for us, then you are mistaken. Securing this deal gets you closer to our goals than doing everything we can to prevent it.
I am still the guy that wants to keep DALPA and the company accountable. I am just siding with the need to make this deal happen. Not at any cost, but more a long the lines that we do not need to work at preventing it.
Our raise costs the company 90 million this year. We have a large multiplier. Our overall costs are exasperated by our size. That is the truth.
I personally feel that we could rework section 23 and help three out right now but like I have said many do not want to open section 6.
People need to realize that we are not going to get what we want if we do not see a modification of this business model. It will not survive till 2015 if changes are not made.
I could get it to our seat pricing modeling etc, but it really does not matter. We need to be able to carry passengers at a set margin with the capacity we have. Until then we will continue to dump seats at the last minute.
Lets not mince what I am trying to say.
Point to my rant is that if you think that JAL is not a good deal for us, then you are mistaken. Securing this deal gets you closer to our goals than doing everything we can to prevent it.
I am still the guy that wants to keep DALPA and the company accountable. I am just siding with the need to make this deal happen. Not at any cost, but more a long the lines that we do not need to work at preventing it.
Our raise costs the company 90 million this year. We have a large multiplier. Our overall costs are exasperated by our size. That is the truth.
I personally feel that we could rework section 23 and help three out right now but like I have said many do not want to open section 6.
People need to realize that we are not going to get what we want if we do not see a modification of this business model. It will not survive till 2015 if changes are not made.
I could get it to our seat pricing modeling etc, but it really does not matter. We need to be able to carry passengers at a set margin with the capacity we have. Until then we will continue to dump seats at the last minute.
90 million is chicken scratch. that's not even $.50 per ticket sold. DAL is a 9+billion company. I don't know if JAL is a good deal or not. I trust you since you are closer to the source. I just don't want US to pay for it in any way, and I am afraid that we are fixin to do just that in some way. I hope I am wrong.
01-11-2010, 08:19 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
01-11-2010, 08:22 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
A decertification of alpa matters not to me one way or the other. From a personaly POV, I just feel they are too bureaucratic for the benefits gained from the organisation. Again, personally, I want to know why his royal highness hasn't been coming to LEC meetings to inform us personally about his agenda. He OWES us that much.. We are after all the largest pilot group within his pervue. But I have digressed enough about all this. Logically, in many ways, I agree with your arguments. Sometimes I get tired of being told that while I have both hands tied behind the chair with the bottom cut out.. and somebody grabbing a big rope with a knot in the end how it could be worse.. (know the movie reference?) and I am supposed to take solace in that thought. Of course I want DAL to make as much money as possible.. Of course I want DAL to be successful. I am not stupid enough to think at all otherwise. I just find it interesting at times when I see other pilots (not specifically you ACL) doing corporates' job of managing expectations... I'll let this go for now. I have actually already broken a New Year's resolution by talking about this stuff. So... How bout my BIG ORANGE? Truly Volunteers last night.
Simple, you like me are passionately involved in how this Association, pilot group and company evolve.
I agree that we have taken it in the six. I am down right mad that this profession has become what it is, but in the end no one cares what I think. They care what our collective bargaining agent agrees to.
This deal is good for us, and that was the thrust behind making those points. It is mutually beneficial for us to see our company win this deal. I pointed out why.
I will remind you that I want to see a percentage of the revenue not the profit given to this group. That was about 10000 posts ago.
As it pertains to Pratter and Moak. I could not agree more. We as the pilots in the bottom up Association need to know where our elected and appointed leaders are taking us. We need to KNOW that they hear us. We NEED two way communication. We need to be brought back in to the loop.
I have discussed this ad nausem with many folks that have a bigger say than I, and they agree, but to make that change, it needs to be demanded, and our new reps and old reps need to be held constantly accountable for their actions and that of the MEC. If that happens you will see marked change IMO. I have great hope for our new 44 reps.
My personal opinion is that if we are successful with JAL and it does not hurt us, we quite possibly could be nearing the end of this lost decade.
01-11-2010, 08:29 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
01-11-2010, 08:38 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
01-11-2010, 08:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
I'm not sure what you mean by your first sentence.
But the second... How can we ever stack it in our favor. management ALWAYS has the capability to cry poor, and threaten us with bankruptcy, and they ALWAYS have the option to just wait us out. Hint: No strike... I just can't understand how we can ever truly claim any kind of victory under these conditions. If Prater weren't so gutless, maybe this would change... but I'm not holding my breath. BTW.. I think secretaries at alpa national make more than you do....
But the second... How can we ever stack it in our favor. management ALWAYS has the capability to cry poor, and threaten us with bankruptcy, and they ALWAYS have the option to just wait us out. Hint: No strike... I just can't understand how we can ever truly claim any kind of victory under these conditions. If Prater weren't so gutless, maybe this would change... but I'm not holding my breath. BTW.. I think secretaries at alpa national make more than you do....
What's funny about it is that, the way I remember it, a month or so after we (and I use that word loosely) at NWA voted in that crappy contract, the ALPA secretaries went on strike for more money. The result? They come out making more money than our DC-9 captains.
No guts, no glory, and for damn sure no payraise.
New K Now
01-11-2010, 08:41 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
IMO if that is an option it means that someone beat us to AS. I would guess we would take the air buses and move them to the west coast to compete.
Just my thoughts though.
01-11-2010, 08:46 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Understood.
I was just pondering the hypothetical.
01-11-2010, 08:46 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
No need to think it. Unless acl has a couple of side jobs, and he's on here waay to much for me to think he is doing any green slip flying, the ALPA secretaries make big bucks. (Uness they took a paycut, which I doubt).
What's funny about it is that, the way I remember it, a month or so after we (and I use that word loosely) at NWA voted in that crappy contract, the ALPA secretaries went on strike for more money. The result? They come out making more money than our DC-9 captains.
No guts, no glory, and for damn sure no payraise.
New K Now
What's funny about it is that, the way I remember it, a month or so after we (and I use that word loosely) at NWA voted in that crappy contract, the ALPA secretaries went on strike for more money. The result? They come out making more money than our DC-9 captains.
No guts, no glory, and for damn sure no payraise.
New K Now
This does not take that much time, trust me.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
