Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-18-2009, 06:42 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Sorry..Couldn't resist google images!!
12-18-2009, 06:44 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Satchip, I already told you, if you end up in MEM and i'm still around we can go to Rendezvous and grab some BBQ and talk football. It would be great, I'll bring my photo album from my trip to the National Championship Game!!
Oh and dont forget, when we go to bus training, You and I are going to pull the father son game at Hooters inside the Mall of America! I figure we can pull it off at least 2 times a week when shift change occurs
Also, Dress Warm, MSP in the Springtime is redonkulously cold......
12-18-2009, 06:52 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
It's been my experience that A330 FO's (and 744 FOs) are there because they DON'T want to be DC9 captains. That is certainly my motivation, lifestyle beats slightly higher pay. I have no desire to be a DC-9 captain at any seniority and very little desire to be a junior A-320 captain as a commuter. Historically, the break point at FNWA seemed to be 755 captain. That was when the pay raise was finally enough to offset the one commute with great layovers on trips, or the month of 3-day Rome trips. Now that block and reserve are no longer separate categories, I suspect there will be a trend towards more senior wide body FOs in DTW. SEA got more senior with the closing of ANC. MSP is starting to get some nice longer trips finally so not sure what will happen there...
12-18-2009, 08:04 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
I can understand that, but from what I hear about the MD90 (I only fly the MD88--ATL based), it really isn't your typical DC9. I see A330 FOs wanting to go to the A320/19, but what about 755 FOs? The MD90 has some magic, plus power, and really isn't a DC9. Maybe I should bid the left seat if no FNWA guys are going to bid it.
I agree with some of the earlier posts. For the most part, the North widebody FO's are a little different and they want no parts of domestic flying. Of course, this is not how all of them feel. But most of the ones I talk to don't even want to fly the left of the 320, let alone the -88/90 or the -9.
I'd be more apt to bid the -90 if I knew what trips it was going to fly and what I could hold. (how do we find out what they are planning on doing with that tihing out of MSP?) But, I am real hesitant to get frozen in MSP for two years. (That was just luck)
I'm also worried that it's possible that you could go into a position in this AE at let's say 80%, but then with the next AE, you could wind up at 95%. So, at this point, I have no idea of what I will do.
It's not just me though. If you walk around the terminal in DTW and MSP, you will see North guys in groups of 3-4, gathered together to try to figure out what to do with the first big AE.
Good thing APC is here.
12-18-2009, 08:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: LAX 350 A
Posts: 564
12-18-2009, 10:25 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,899
Bill,
I agree with some of the earlier posts. For the most part, the North widebody FO's are a little different and they want no parts of domestic flying. Of course, this is not how all of them feel. But most of the ones I talk to don't even want to fly the left of the 320, let alone the -88/90 or the -9.
I agree with some of the earlier posts. For the most part, the North widebody FO's are a little different and they want no parts of domestic flying. Of course, this is not how all of them feel. But most of the ones I talk to don't even want to fly the left of the 320, let alone the -88/90 or the -9.
There are guys out there who live for the WB scene. Thats all they know, that's all they want to know. They enjoy the breakfast club in NRT, the Green Awning, the Spiral Staircase and the Jet Lag Club. Many have deals on the side, either back home or in Asia.
Some guys live out there already. Some work the DHs so they never come farther to MSP than the west coast other than for CQ.
Some will bite the bullet for an "A" slot, but vast majority can make the same bank for a ton less work and hassle doing what they're doing and not getting their "hands dirty".
Nu
12-18-2009, 10:31 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
12-19-2009, 03:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
Delta ousts American in JAL global alliance Leeham News and Comment
Delta ousts American in JAL global alliance
We have learned for industry sources that Delta Air Lines has won the battle and that Japan Air Lines will be leaving the oneworld alliance to join SkyTeam, reports Ernie Arvai of the AirInsight team of which Leeham Co. is a member.
This is a significant blow to American Airlines, which now lacks a Japanese partner, and boosts both United (Star Alliance partner with ANA) and Delta (with NW Japanese routes and now JAL) that can be well exploited, given the new open skies agreement between the two countries.
This is not unexpected, as if JAL were happy with oneworld, they wouldn’t have considered a switch to SkyTeam and would have quickly ended discussions with Delta, rather than making them public. JAL was not happy with its oneworld alliance partners, feeling neglected in the alliance. British Airways, the lead oneworld partner with American, seemed preoccupied with Iberia, and AA with BA on transatlantic antitrust, and AA and BA paid little attention to JAL’s concerns in the alliance. They felt ignored, and frankly insulted by their “second class” status within the alliance. Delta and AirFrance/KLM have clearly indicated a stronger role, and the ability to cooperate with, rather than compete with Korean Air Lines, already a SkyTeam partner.
This story is similar to others we have heard in the past — that entails a fair amount of arrogance from the two key oneworld partners AA and BA. When the issue of switching an alliance came up, they initially questioned why JAL would leave the “stellar” partners in oneworld, despite a lack of performance and code-share traffic generated by them. In typical Japanese fashion, they made public their consideration of Delta, both to allow oneworld the opportunity to publicly “save face” and to maximize the potential benefits by playing the alliances against each other.
They key was economics — Delta simply showed the benefits of alliances in a different light. It highlighted the NW/KLM and DL/AF deals and how their success was superior to the AA-BA alliance and code shares from IB and others. It all comes down to fundamentals, and this is where two hungry airlines, NW and KL, pioneered code- sharing to an extent not done by others, with their combined “world business class” and true sharing of revenues and expenses across the Atlantic. With an incentive to feed traffic for both carriers, they were much more successful than more traditional limited code-share partnerships. AA/BA, who did not gain antitrust immunity, had each carrier feeding traffic to its own flights preferentially, with secondary displays for code-share flights. The AA-BA alliance only really pushed traffic in markets not served by each carrier. There was no incentive to maximize revenues and loads on every flight, and guess what – it didn’t happen. The only counter that AA could provide was that DL and JAL were unlikely to gain antitrust immunity, which would basically provide a status quo. Delta is pushing the frontier, and JAL recognizes the need to move forward with innovation, rather than stagnation given their weak economic position.
Delta has shown the ability to gain antitrust immunity in several markets, and has cooperated with regulators to reduce capacity if required to ensure competitive balance. AA and BA have fought regulators at every step, refusing to compromise in markets such as Boston in which they have dominant capacity, such as 80%+ for BOS- LHR. As a result, the oneworld partner’s track record is poor – and from what we hear, their negotiation strategy was typical for American – stacking the deck in their favor, rather than a more balanced proposition. While American brought in TPG as an additional investor at the 11th hour, Delta had already offered an equity stake from the airline itself, showing stronger interest. Delta (and AF/KL and KAL, who haven’t been mentioned much but are also important and involved) have clearly demonstrated that they want JAL in the alliance, and are willing to cooperate to maximize revenues for all parties involved. AA and BA, after recovering from the shock to their rather large egos that someone may want to actually change partners, have played catch-up and have been a step behind – causing the Japanese to think if you could do this now, why didn’t you previously. Weren’t you listening. AA and BA have lost their opportunity to save face.
The key is that Delta will reach an agreement with JAL that makes economic sense, and enables reduction of capacity and higher profitability on code-shared flights. The old NW routes will be rationalized with JAL service into other DL/AF/KL hubs, and while some cuts in capacity will be made, this will help each carrier become more profitable with higher load factors and higher yields.
While JAL is indicating that a decision has not yet been made, we understand that plans for the unwinding of JAL participation in oneworld have begun internally. Unless an earth-shattering development occurs that is beyond the control of the airline, this now appears to be a done deal.
Ernie Arvai
Delta ousts American in JAL global alliance
We have learned for industry sources that Delta Air Lines has won the battle and that Japan Air Lines will be leaving the oneworld alliance to join SkyTeam, reports Ernie Arvai of the AirInsight team of which Leeham Co. is a member.
This is a significant blow to American Airlines, which now lacks a Japanese partner, and boosts both United (Star Alliance partner with ANA) and Delta (with NW Japanese routes and now JAL) that can be well exploited, given the new open skies agreement between the two countries.
This is not unexpected, as if JAL were happy with oneworld, they wouldn’t have considered a switch to SkyTeam and would have quickly ended discussions with Delta, rather than making them public. JAL was not happy with its oneworld alliance partners, feeling neglected in the alliance. British Airways, the lead oneworld partner with American, seemed preoccupied with Iberia, and AA with BA on transatlantic antitrust, and AA and BA paid little attention to JAL’s concerns in the alliance. They felt ignored, and frankly insulted by their “second class” status within the alliance. Delta and AirFrance/KLM have clearly indicated a stronger role, and the ability to cooperate with, rather than compete with Korean Air Lines, already a SkyTeam partner.
This story is similar to others we have heard in the past — that entails a fair amount of arrogance from the two key oneworld partners AA and BA. When the issue of switching an alliance came up, they initially questioned why JAL would leave the “stellar” partners in oneworld, despite a lack of performance and code-share traffic generated by them. In typical Japanese fashion, they made public their consideration of Delta, both to allow oneworld the opportunity to publicly “save face” and to maximize the potential benefits by playing the alliances against each other.
They key was economics — Delta simply showed the benefits of alliances in a different light. It highlighted the NW/KLM and DL/AF deals and how their success was superior to the AA-BA alliance and code shares from IB and others. It all comes down to fundamentals, and this is where two hungry airlines, NW and KL, pioneered code- sharing to an extent not done by others, with their combined “world business class” and true sharing of revenues and expenses across the Atlantic. With an incentive to feed traffic for both carriers, they were much more successful than more traditional limited code-share partnerships. AA/BA, who did not gain antitrust immunity, had each carrier feeding traffic to its own flights preferentially, with secondary displays for code-share flights. The AA-BA alliance only really pushed traffic in markets not served by each carrier. There was no incentive to maximize revenues and loads on every flight, and guess what – it didn’t happen. The only counter that AA could provide was that DL and JAL were unlikely to gain antitrust immunity, which would basically provide a status quo. Delta is pushing the frontier, and JAL recognizes the need to move forward with innovation, rather than stagnation given their weak economic position.
Delta has shown the ability to gain antitrust immunity in several markets, and has cooperated with regulators to reduce capacity if required to ensure competitive balance. AA and BA have fought regulators at every step, refusing to compromise in markets such as Boston in which they have dominant capacity, such as 80%+ for BOS- LHR. As a result, the oneworld partner’s track record is poor – and from what we hear, their negotiation strategy was typical for American – stacking the deck in their favor, rather than a more balanced proposition. While American brought in TPG as an additional investor at the 11th hour, Delta had already offered an equity stake from the airline itself, showing stronger interest. Delta (and AF/KL and KAL, who haven’t been mentioned much but are also important and involved) have clearly demonstrated that they want JAL in the alliance, and are willing to cooperate to maximize revenues for all parties involved. AA and BA, after recovering from the shock to their rather large egos that someone may want to actually change partners, have played catch-up and have been a step behind – causing the Japanese to think if you could do this now, why didn’t you previously. Weren’t you listening. AA and BA have lost their opportunity to save face.
The key is that Delta will reach an agreement with JAL that makes economic sense, and enables reduction of capacity and higher profitability on code-shared flights. The old NW routes will be rationalized with JAL service into other DL/AF/KL hubs, and while some cuts in capacity will be made, this will help each carrier become more profitable with higher load factors and higher yields.
While JAL is indicating that a decision has not yet been made, we understand that plans for the unwinding of JAL participation in oneworld have begun internally. Unless an earth-shattering development occurs that is beyond the control of the airline, this now appears to be a done deal.
Ernie Arvai
12-19-2009, 04:12 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I'm wondering this too because my reinstatement box on the AE preferences asks me if i want to reinstate to MEM320B? Does this mean that i have first rights to MEM? Or does it just mean I have rights to reinstate to the Bus in general? You'd think if it was just for the bus in general they wouldnt ask if i wanted reinstatement rights to MEM320B. I bid all of the bases anyway because the base doesnt matter to me very much since I commute out of a commuter friendly city.
Satchip, I already told you, if you end up in MEM and i'm still around we can go to Rendezvous and grab some BBQ and talk football. It would be great, I'll bring my photo album from my trip to the National Championship Game!!
Oh and dont forget, when we go to bus training, You and I are going to pull the father son game at Hooters inside the Mall of America! I figure we can pull it off at least 2 times a week when shift change occurs Also, Dress Warm, MSP in the Springtime is redonkulously cold......
Satchip, I already told you, if you end up in MEM and i'm still around we can go to Rendezvous and grab some BBQ and talk football. It would be great, I'll bring my photo album from my trip to the National Championship Game!!
Oh and dont forget, when we go to bus training, You and I are going to pull the father son game at Hooters inside the Mall of America! I figure we can pull it off at least 2 times a week when shift change occurs
Also, Dress Warm, MSP in the Springtime is redonkulously cold......MEM 320B is how I understand it.
12-19-2009, 04:47 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: The Beginnings
Posts: 1,317
I'm reminded of the old saw about "The bigger they are . . ."
I also find it a bit surreal that DAL can lose money, have projections of losing even more money next year, and be part of an entire industry projected to lose multiple billions next year, yet still negotiate a multi-billion dollar deal.
I also find it a bit surreal that DAL can lose money, have projections of losing even more money next year, and be part of an entire industry projected to lose multiple billions next year, yet still negotiate a multi-billion dollar deal.
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