Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-12-2009, 06:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Ferd ...
I'm a new guy here but I'll throw out a possibility. Because lots of the people in those types of positions are Atlanta based and don't have to worry about such things.
Now with this bid, things could very well change.
To quote one Atlanta based pilot in the lounge the day the MOAB dropped, "I guess we had it coming...."
I'm a new guy here but I'll throw out a possibility. Because lots of the people in those types of positions are Atlanta based and don't have to worry about such things.
Now with this bid, things could very well change.
To quote one Atlanta based pilot in the lounge the day the MOAB dropped, "I guess we had it coming...."
Harumph
Harumph
"Hey, I didn't get a harumph from that guy..."
12-12-2009, 07:01 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
That is a gross overestimation. That is to get the ups policy and assumines everyone is a commuter.
I think the right way to look at is - NY has crappy wx, there have been morning cancellations so pax are backed up. So you cant get on your first flight and shortcalls have been used to cope with the commuter problems. Now you get positive space and because of this the IROP doesnt get worse and your flight operates and doesnt cancel with the resultant rebookings, hotel rooms, greenslips, etc. I just dont see how this has a cost. It is a benefit to the company and minor stress reliever to the pilot.
12-12-2009, 07:03 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
That is a gross overestimation. That is to get the ups policy and assumines everyone is a commuter.
I think the right way to look at is - NY has crappy wx, there have been morning cancellations so pax are backed up. So you cant get on your first flight and shortcalls have been used to cope with the commuter problems. Now you get positive space and because of this the IROP doesnt get worse and your flight operates and doesnt cancel with the resultant rebookings, hotel rooms, greenslips, etc. I just dont see how this has a cost. It is a benefit to the company and minor stress reliever to the pilot.
I think the right way to look at is - NY has crappy wx, there have been morning cancellations so pax are backed up. So you cant get on your first flight and shortcalls have been used to cope with the commuter problems. Now you get positive space and because of this the IROP doesnt get worse and your flight operates and doesnt cancel with the resultant rebookings, hotel rooms, greenslips, etc. I just dont see how this has a cost. It is a benefit to the company and minor stress reliever to the pilot.
12-12-2009, 07:07 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
12-12-2009, 07:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
12-12-2009, 07:19 PM
veut gagner ΰ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
What I think it is good for still to some degree is knowing what % in category it takes to hold a line for those categories that are not being hacked up. And not only hold a line but do so in the worst month for the number of lines, December.
It does not take into account people who bid down to reserve. All I did was add the ACTUAL regular lines to reserve for the month of December and break out the %. Thats it. A320 MSP B is 69%, A320 DTW B is 80%. The % for overall seniority to hold a line is just fyi as of today. I got that by cross refencing with the category seniority list and again purposefully did not take into account people who bid down which can be large in the holiday period.
Its just a good list for "as of right now" where does someone fall? Its close, its not accurate. But some folks were making some pretty wild assumptions about the junor-ity of a base and I just wanted to put out the real numbers before that went too far.
I really wish I had December 08 data, I'd love to show how ATL and NYC widebody positions have already been undergoing a mass "correction" in seniority even prior to this AE.
And if you've watched any of the Senate hearings, several of them are hell bent on ending commuting and/or introducing language that will prevent you from commuting same day, commuting overnight, or crashing in the lounge. Essentially, they want 8 hours of sleep in a bed, in an area where you won't be interrupted (think current USAF policies for crewrest). In fact, many of them have quoted USAF/DOD requirements and some have mentioned Atlas/World policies of getting an airline ticket and a room the night before. Sure that's nice, but that means all of your trips just got at a minimum 1 day longer if not two.
---
And as to sleeping in crew rooms, someone mentioned this a 100 pages back (i.e. yesterday) - not everyone who does it is just doing so to be cheap. I commuted to EWR with XJT, had a $300 crashpad (you pay a lot to have transportation) but it took 45min-1 hour to get to it and it was in Elizabeth! Thats like 3-4 miles away?!? If I commuted in at 10pm for a 6am show, do the math, sleep in the crewroom and get some real sleep.
Well, there is good and bad there Satch and Super. The curse of the Heisman is now on Ingram, so Super +1 for you, but Ingram is like one of 3 running backs so +1 for Satch- especially since Auburn proved you can stop Ingram and Alabama for 3.7 quarters and not win.
They truly need a life time award for a college football senior. I think Tebow would've won, but, ever since the Bob Griese driven "Anyone But Manning" debacle a couple of years ago there needs to be an award for those who've achieved overall versus who achieved just this year- Woodson, never deserved it fwiw. The Heisman straddles the fence on that, rarely (until recently) giving awards to the most deserving player because they're a freshman or sophmore but then giving it to them a year later when they don't deserve it. Thats what Herschel Walker said, he deserved it and didn't get it and then got it when he didn't deserve it.
But Tom looks the same.
foxnews.com does these "where are they now" things, I don't want to see one for Top Gun. Ewww. ---
Where is our bid awards for January?!? Come on already, its 10pm on the 12th, they should be out!
---
Do they pubish planned block hours anywhere? I want to see it for ATL because without seeing I think I can confidently say ATL mainline flying is in no way shrinking but probably increasing- its the pilot base that is shrinking. Thats my bet, if I'm wrong, I won't admit it. I'll divert the conversation, or just divert.
---
Hockey, you mentioned earlier that commuting to reserve at Delta is worse than regionals. My regional was 2 hour short call 100% of the time, unless you had airport standby, with no CASS for nearly 5 years and no reserving of JS's and it was supposedly a great regonal. And I found commuting to reserve easier than holding an uncommutable line. Maybe you've seen better at another regional but imo DAL reserve is 20 times better than any regional I know BUT there is stuff we need to really improve upon. But 70% of this airline holds a line and never contemplates a reservists life once they have a line.
With that said commuting and then commuting to reserve will always blow, but also living in a base you don't want to live in for whatever reason - did that twice - really blows. I'd rather just have a job that blows then one that really blows or really really blows, because that really would blow. Living in base is easier, but, I don't blame anyone for not living in ATL nor would I have wanted anyone to blame me for not living in Houston, Cleveland or Newark when I was at XJT. Its nobodys business but mine if I commute.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 12-12-2009 at 07:31 PM.
12-12-2009, 07:33 PM
veut gagner ΰ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Eye Test
For feds, more get 6-figure salaries
Average pay $30,000 over private sector
By Dennis Cauchon
USA TODAY
The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.
Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.
Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time in pay and hiring during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.
The highest-paid federal employees are doing best of all on salary increases. Defense Department civilian employees earning $150,000 or more increased from 1,868 in December 2007 to 10,100 in June 2009, the most recent figure available.
When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000.
The trend to six-figure salaries is occurring throughout the federal government, in agencies big and small, high-tech and low-tech. The primary cause: substantial pay raises and new salary rules.
"There's no way to justify this to the American people. It's ridiculous," says Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, a first-term lawmaker who is on the House's federal workforce subcommittee.
Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.
USA TODAY analyzed the Office of Personnel Management's database that tracks salaries of more than 2 million federal workers. Excluded from OPM's data: the White House, Congress, the Postal Service, intelligence agencies and uniformed military personnel.
The growth in six-figure salaries has pushed the average federal worker's pay to $71,206, compared with $40,331 in the private sector.
Key reasons for the boom in six-figure salaries:
Pay hikes. Then-president Bush recommended and Congress approved across-the-board raises of 3% in January 2008 and 3.9% in January 2009. President Obama has recommended 2% pay raises in January 2010, the smallest since 1975. Most federal workers also get longevity pay hikes called steps that average 1.5% per year.
New pay system. Congress created a new National Security Personnel System for the Defense Department to reward merit, in addition to the across-the-board increases. The merit raises, which started in January 2008, were larger than expected and rewarded high-ranking employees. In October, Congress voted to end the new pay scale by 2012.
Pay caps eased. Many top civil servants are prohibited from making more than an agency's leader. But if Congress lifts the boss' salary, others get raises, too. When the Federal Aviation Administration chief's salary rose, nearly 1,700 employees' had their salaries lifted above $170,000, too.
Average pay $30,000 over private sector
By Dennis Cauchon
USA TODAY
The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data.
Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.
Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time in pay and hiring during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.
The highest-paid federal employees are doing best of all on salary increases. Defense Department civilian employees earning $150,000 or more increased from 1,868 in December 2007 to 10,100 in June 2009, the most recent figure available.
When the recession started, the Transportation Department had only one person earning a salary of $170,000 or more. Eighteen months later, 1,690 employees had salaries above $170,000.
The trend to six-figure salaries is occurring throughout the federal government, in agencies big and small, high-tech and low-tech. The primary cause: substantial pay raises and new salary rules.
"There's no way to justify this to the American people. It's ridiculous," says Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, a first-term lawmaker who is on the House's federal workforce subcommittee.
Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs.
USA TODAY analyzed the Office of Personnel Management's database that tracks salaries of more than 2 million federal workers. Excluded from OPM's data: the White House, Congress, the Postal Service, intelligence agencies and uniformed military personnel.
The growth in six-figure salaries has pushed the average federal worker's pay to $71,206, compared with $40,331 in the private sector.
Key reasons for the boom in six-figure salaries:
Pay hikes. Then-president Bush recommended and Congress approved across-the-board raises of 3% in January 2008 and 3.9% in January 2009. President Obama has recommended 2% pay raises in January 2010, the smallest since 1975. Most federal workers also get longevity pay hikes called steps that average 1.5% per year.
New pay system. Congress created a new National Security Personnel System for the Defense Department to reward merit, in addition to the across-the-board increases. The merit raises, which started in January 2008, were larger than expected and rewarded high-ranking employees. In October, Congress voted to end the new pay scale by 2012.
Pay caps eased. Many top civil servants are prohibited from making more than an agency's leader. But if Congress lifts the boss' salary, others get raises, too. When the Federal Aviation Administration chief's salary rose, nearly 1,700 employees' had their salaries lifted above $170,000, too.
12-12-2009, 07:34 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Wow, I can hold the 777 in DTW and am only 6 folks from holding Captain on it 
and Captain on several other airplanes.
Fun to play with before everyone puts their preferences in. There could be some surprisingly junior Douglas plugs in left seats from the way things look this instant.
My thought is to just suck up the pay cut and bid ugly early. Being fairly senior in an unpopular category probably makes for an easier commute 'eh?
Also, going up the night before and grabbing early morning duty in's might be a lower stress way to complete the mission (and still give you an angle to Call in Honest and get CS to get you to work if they really needed you there).
Strategy:
(1) Go ugly early
(2) Commute day before
(3) Bid early duty in trips
(4) Put entire schedule in open time and hope it gets picked up
Guess the cost of all of this, with the equipment change - $15,000' ish a year? ($10 an hour pay cut, hotel rooms, food and the odd ticket to work here and there. Also figuring a crash pad could be more expensive / less convenient than hotel rooms, if you could work your schedule to say 3 or 4 extra overnights a month)
Never set out to commute before, those who have, any advice?
and Captain on several other airplanes.Fun to play with before everyone puts their preferences in. There could be some surprisingly junior Douglas plugs in left seats from the way things look this instant.
My thought is to just suck up the pay cut and bid ugly early. Being fairly senior in an unpopular category probably makes for an easier commute 'eh?
Also, going up the night before and grabbing early morning duty in's might be a lower stress way to complete the mission (and still give you an angle to Call in Honest and get CS to get you to work if they really needed you there).
Strategy:
(1) Go ugly early
(2) Commute day before
(3) Bid early duty in trips
(4) Put entire schedule in open time and hope it gets picked up
Guess the cost of all of this, with the equipment change - $15,000' ish a year? ($10 an hour pay cut, hotel rooms, food and the odd ticket to work here and there. Also figuring a crash pad could be more expensive / less convenient than hotel rooms, if you could work your schedule to say 3 or 4 extra overnights a month)
Never set out to commute before, those who have, any advice?
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 12-12-2009 at 07:47 PM.
12-12-2009, 07:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Will we start seeing any results on Monday? Wait, or do they all come out together in one batch vs once a category at a time (ie 744B).
Ferd
12-12-2009, 07:35 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Hockey, you mentioned earlier that commuting to reserve at Delta is worse than regionals. My regional was 2 hour short call 100% of the time, unless you had airport standby, with no CASS for nearly 5 years and no reserving of JS's and it was supposedly a great regonal. And I found commuting to reserve easier than holding an uncommutable line. Maybe you've seen better at another regional but imo DAL reserve is 20 times better than any regional I know BUT there is stuff we need to really improve upon. But 70% of this airline holds a line and never contemplates a reservists life once they have a line.
With that said commuting and then commuting to reserve will always blow, but also living in a base you don't want to live in for whatever reason - did that twice - really blows. I'd rather just have a job that blows then one that really blows or really really blows, because that really would blow. Living in base is easier, but, I don't blame anyone for not living in ATL nor would I have wanted anyone to blame me for not living in Houston, Cleveland or Newark when I was at XJT. Its nobodys business but mine if I commute.
With that said commuting and then commuting to reserve will always blow, but also living in a base you don't want to live in for whatever reason - did that twice - really blows. I'd rather just have a job that blows then one that really blows or really really blows, because that really would blow. Living in base is easier, but, I don't blame anyone for not living in ATL nor would I have wanted anyone to blame me for not living in Houston, Cleveland or Newark when I was at XJT. Its nobodys business but mine if I commute.
Hockey apparently was a Shuttlepublicaqua guy. I've watched his posts for a while on FI and here..... the unfortunate thing is you can discount his posts as just whiny and misinformed 95% of the time. Most things he complains about are because he doesn't take the time or mental power to understand or do something about said situation.
I wouldn't put a whole lot of weight into them.
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