Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-11-2009, 01:11 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
I'm trying to figure out what exactly this means when there are vacancies and surpluses posted. I think I know the answer, but reading the contract, it's not entirely clear.
So, here's the deal...I was MD'd off the 7ERB ATL effective this month, so I have reinstatement rights. There is a vacancy of 35 7ERB on this AE. BUT there are 221 ATL 765B and 767B surpluses on this bid as well. So if they run the AE and less than 35 people with reinstatement rights senior to me request to be reinstated, that would allow me to be reinstated. After they do this step, I assume they now start the displacements of the other categories, flushing the people that just got reinstated to the 7ER back off the airplane? So, in reality, my reinstatement rights probably mean next to nothing with so many people getting bumped off the 765 and the 767, right?
I am hoping I am wrong, but I assume I am right and will probably be bumped completely out of ATL as well. Speaking of which, which other base is the easiest to commute to out of ATL?
So, here's the deal...I was MD'd off the 7ERB ATL effective this month, so I have reinstatement rights. There is a vacancy of 35 7ERB on this AE. BUT there are 221 ATL 765B and 767B surpluses on this bid as well. So if they run the AE and less than 35 people with reinstatement rights senior to me request to be reinstated, that would allow me to be reinstated. After they do this step, I assume they now start the displacements of the other categories, flushing the people that just got reinstated to the 7ER back off the airplane? So, in reality, my reinstatement rights probably mean next to nothing with so many people getting bumped off the 765 and the 767, right?
I am hoping I am wrong, but I assume I am right and will probably be bumped completely out of ATL as well. Speaking of which, which other base is the easiest to commute to out of ATL?
12-11-2009, 01:12 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: 73N Capt
Posts: 37
[quote=acl65pilot;725373]
ACL, compared projected "22 D.3" report to current Jan2010 category in A320's
DTW
New 267A / 261 B
Jan 274A / 257B
change -7 A / 4 B
MEM
New 80A / 80B
Jan 87A / 77B
change -7A / 3B
MSP
New 307A / 321B
Jan 340A / 335B
change -33A / -14B
SLC
New 105A / 111B
Jan 0A / 0B
change 105A / 111B
Net Change
Losses -47A / -14B
Gains 105 A / 118B
Net 58A / 104B
So, SOMETHING is going on. How can you build a SLC category with 105A / 111B and only move out 47A/ 14B from the current categories?
Just for captains, 58 captains equates to about 8 aditional A320 aircraft! assuming 7 Captains per aircraft.
Notice that these are the following A320 displacements:
DTW 320Capt 3
MSP 320Capt 15
=============
320Capt = 18
320F/o = 0 [?]
Now here are the Advancements:
DTW 320f/o 3
MEM 320f/o 4
MSP 320f/o 4
SLC 320Capt 105
SLC 320f/o 111
=============
320 Capt = 105
320 F/o = 122
So +87 captain positions
and +122 F/O positions.
Where are all the new A320's coming from, or are they fat stacking it that much?[/QUOTE]
Makes me wonder too! Add 320's to ATL on the next bid and you will either kill MSP or need to buy jets.
DTW 320Capt 3
MSP 320Capt 15
=============
320Capt = 18
320F/o = 0 [?]
Now here are the Advancements:
DTW 320f/o 3
MEM 320f/o 4
MSP 320f/o 4
SLC 320Capt 105
SLC 320f/o 111
=============
320 Capt = 105
320 F/o = 122
So +87 captain positions
and +122 F/O positions.
Where are all the new A320's coming from, or are they fat stacking it that much?[/QUOTE]
Makes me wonder too! Add 320's to ATL on the next bid and you will either kill MSP or need to buy jets.
DTW
New 267A / 261 B
Jan 274A / 257B
change -7 A / 4 B
MEM
New 80A / 80B
Jan 87A / 77B
change -7A / 3B
MSP
New 307A / 321B
Jan 340A / 335B
change -33A / -14B
SLC
New 105A / 111B
Jan 0A / 0B
change 105A / 111B
Net Change
Losses -47A / -14B
Gains 105 A / 118B
Net 58A / 104B
So, SOMETHING is going on. How can you build a SLC category with 105A / 111B and only move out 47A/ 14B from the current categories?
Just for captains, 58 captains equates to about 8 aditional A320 aircraft! assuming 7 Captains per aircraft.
12-11-2009, 01:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
[QUOTE=PTCpilotDude;725418]
ACL, compared projected "22 D.3" report to current Jan2010 category in A320's
DTW
New 267A / 261 B
Jan 274A / 257B
change -7 A / 4 B
MEM
New 80A / 80B
Jan 87A / 77B
change -7A / 3B
MSP
New 307A / 321B
Jan 340A / 335B
change -33A / -14B
SLC
New 105A / 111B
Jan 0A / 0B
change 105A / 111B
Net Change
Losses -47A / -14B
Gains 105 A / 118B
Net 58A / 104B
So, SOMETHING is going on. How can you build a SLC category with 105A / 111B and only move out 47A/ 14B from the current categories?
Just for captains, 58 captains equates to about 8 aditional A320 aircraft! assuming 7 Captains per aircraft.
The above is erroneous data. There are 92A and 92B being removed from SLC as they dissolve the M90 base.
ACL, compared projected "22 D.3" report to current Jan2010 category in A320's
DTW
New 267A / 261 B
Jan 274A / 257B
change -7 A / 4 B
MEM
New 80A / 80B
Jan 87A / 77B
change -7A / 3B
MSP
New 307A / 321B
Jan 340A / 335B
change -33A / -14B
SLC
New 105A / 111B
Jan 0A / 0B
change 105A / 111B
Net Change
Losses -47A / -14B
Gains 105 A / 118B
Net 58A / 104B
So, SOMETHING is going on. How can you build a SLC category with 105A / 111B and only move out 47A/ 14B from the current categories?
Just for captains, 58 captains equates to about 8 aditional A320 aircraft! assuming 7 Captains per aircraft.
12-11-2009, 01:20 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
You guys crack me up. My favorites so far are:
The hunt for white October
and
Grumpy Young Southern Men
Trust me all you ATL guys. It's not that bad in the Midwest. I'm a convert for nearly a decade now, and while the cold winters do suck by April, I'd rather live up here than back in ATL. It just took me a few years to realize it.
Now if we could just get an MKE base going......ACL see if you can put a word in
The hunt for white October
and
Grumpy Young Southern Men
Trust me all you ATL guys. It's not that bad in the Midwest. I'm a convert for nearly a decade now, and while the cold winters do suck by April, I'd rather live up here than back in ATL. It just took me a few years to realize it.
Now if we could just get an MKE base going......ACL see if you can put a word in
12-11-2009, 01:31 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: 73N Capt
Posts: 37
Net base changes from the current category list bid for Jan 2010 compared to the new bid projected 22 D.3 pilot staffing:
ATL -147A / -150B
CVG 12A / 12B
DTW -39A / -41B
LAX -9A / -8B
MEM -7A / 3B
MSP 9A / 65B
NYC 57A / 117B
SEA -25A / -7B
SLC 25A / 20B
Total system
-124A / 11B
Or -113 total pilots less manning.
Now we are fat in several categories now, so that is not surprising. But the changes in the bases is surprising, especially the extra 162 A320 positions they are creating.
ATL -147A / -150B
CVG 12A / 12B
DTW -39A / -41B
LAX -9A / -8B
MEM -7A / 3B
MSP 9A / 65B
NYC 57A / 117B
SEA -25A / -7B
SLC 25A / 20B
Total system
-124A / 11B
Or -113 total pilots less manning.
Now we are fat in several categories now, so that is not surprising. But the changes in the bases is surprising, especially the extra 162 A320 positions they are creating.
12-11-2009, 01:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
[quote=PTCpilotDude;725418]
ACL, compared projected "22 D.3" report to current Jan2010 category in A320's
DTW
New 267A / 261 B
Jan 274A / 257B
change -7 A / 4 B
MEM
New 80A / 80B
Jan 87A / 77B
change -7A / 3B
MSP
New 307A / 321B
Jan 340A / 335B
change -33A / -14B
SLC
New 105A / 111B
Jan 0A / 0B
change 105A / 111B
Net Change
Losses -47A / -14B
Gains 105 A / 118B
Net 58A / 104B
So, SOMETHING is going on. How can you build a SLC category with 105A / 111B and only move out 47A/ 14B from the current categories?
Just for captains, 58 captains equates to about 8 aditional A320 aircraft! assuming 7 Captains per aircraft.
I'm real confused too.......but that is normal for me
Does it have anything to do with the increased utilization projected for the 320 (7%?).
This stuff makes my head hurt, todays plan is to stay put as a 755B and wait to see how many 744Bs start the cascade........
I'm with Iceman, call your reps about call in honest vs call in stupid. The company can't move guys around (not everyone will pull kids out of school and wives out of high paying jobs) and keep it hard to commute. I'm all for RA having his cake and eating it too, but I think either the the sick call rate will go through the roof or cancels due to lack of crew will go up. NWA figured out a long time ago it was cheaper to get a guy to work sometimes than rebook a flight. We just have to get the bean counters to look at the models correctly. Oh, and no the flight attendents don't get it too.......there are more of them and they don't have our skill set. I love them all dearly (really) but they are different with respect to this issue.
Ferd
ACL, compared projected "22 D.3" report to current Jan2010 category in A320's
DTW
New 267A / 261 B
Jan 274A / 257B
change -7 A / 4 B
MEM
New 80A / 80B
Jan 87A / 77B
change -7A / 3B
MSP
New 307A / 321B
Jan 340A / 335B
change -33A / -14B
SLC
New 105A / 111B
Jan 0A / 0B
change 105A / 111B
Net Change
Losses -47A / -14B
Gains 105 A / 118B
Net 58A / 104B
So, SOMETHING is going on. How can you build a SLC category with 105A / 111B and only move out 47A/ 14B from the current categories?
Just for captains, 58 captains equates to about 8 aditional A320 aircraft! assuming 7 Captains per aircraft.
Does it have anything to do with the increased utilization projected for the 320 (7%?).
This stuff makes my head hurt, todays plan is to stay put as a 755B and wait to see how many 744Bs start the cascade........
I'm with Iceman, call your reps about call in honest vs call in stupid. The company can't move guys around (not everyone will pull kids out of school and wives out of high paying jobs) and keep it hard to commute. I'm all for RA having his cake and eating it too, but I think either the the sick call rate will go through the roof or cancels due to lack of crew will go up. NWA figured out a long time ago it was cheaper to get a guy to work sometimes than rebook a flight. We just have to get the bean counters to look at the models correctly. Oh, and no the flight attendents don't get it too.......there are more of them and they don't have our skill set. I love them all dearly (really) but they are different with respect to this issue.
Ferd
12-11-2009, 01:45 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: 73N Capt
Posts: 37
[quote=Jack Bauer;725420]
Jack,
The above data includes the M88 A and B displacements:
105 A320 captains added
-90 M88 Captains displaced
=====
25 new Captain positions
111 A320 f/o's added
-91 M88 f/o's displaced
======
20 new f/0 positions
now the data I'm using is the current published category list dated December 2010 as compared to the just published projected manning list from the 22 D.3 report on the crew resources website:
"Section 22 D.3. PWA Requirement December 2010 Pilot Staffing "
This is the most accurate data on what is happening. You can find these reports on the Pilot Resources and Scheduling section of the Flight Ops website.
So, I don't understand your comment of it being erroneous?
The above data includes the M88 A and B displacements:
105 A320 captains added
-90 M88 Captains displaced
=====
25 new Captain positions
111 A320 f/o's added
-91 M88 f/o's displaced
======
20 new f/0 positions
now the data I'm using is the current published category list dated December 2010 as compared to the just published projected manning list from the 22 D.3 report on the crew resources website:
"Section 22 D.3. PWA Requirement December 2010 Pilot Staffing "
This is the most accurate data on what is happening. You can find these reports on the Pilot Resources and Scheduling section of the Flight Ops website.
So, I don't understand your comment of it being erroneous?
12-11-2009, 01:49 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
That's what I was after, the report times for Intl. Long call. So it is a 12 hr. leash on long call. I couldn't fina anywhere in the contract where it said a 24 hour long call.
12-11-2009, 01:54 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 354
12-11-2009, 01:57 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: 73N Capt
Posts: 37
[quote=PTCpilotDude;725433]
Jack,
The above data includes the M88 A and B displacements:
105 A320 captains added
-90 M88 Captains displaced
=====
25 new Captain positions
111 A320 f/o's added
-91 M88 f/o's displaced
======
20 new f/0 positions
now the data I'm using is the current published category list dated December 2010 as compared to the just published projected manning list from the 22 D.3 report on the crew resources website:
"Section 22 D.3. PWA Requirement December 2010 Pilot Staffing "
This is the most accurate data on what is happening. You can find these reports on the Pilot Resources and Scheduling section of the Flight Ops website.
So, I don't understand your comment of it being erroneous?
The december category list only has 90 SLC M88 captains and 91 f/o's. I suspect the difference is there are a few pilots no included due to NBL's or SIC/MIL/NBC status. But that is what the most current category list has as numbers. Therefore the basic gist of the data is saying what I posted, that 25 new captains and 20 new f/o's are beig added to SLC by this bid.
Crew Resources always gets a little flexibility when doing these bids anyways.
Jack,
The above data includes the M88 A and B displacements:
105 A320 captains added
-90 M88 Captains displaced
=====
25 new Captain positions
111 A320 f/o's added
-91 M88 f/o's displaced
======
20 new f/0 positions
now the data I'm using is the current published category list dated December 2010 as compared to the just published projected manning list from the 22 D.3 report on the crew resources website:
"Section 22 D.3. PWA Requirement December 2010 Pilot Staffing "
This is the most accurate data on what is happening. You can find these reports on the Pilot Resources and Scheduling section of the Flight Ops website.
So, I don't understand your comment of it being erroneous?
Crew Resources always gets a little flexibility when doing these bids anyways.
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